rule on evil people's deaths?

I just got bitchslapped for posting my personal joy in a thread entitled “Ed Koch, RIP” and I’m not arguing the injustice, the calamity, the man’s-inhumanity-to-man of it, as much as asking a factual question: if a public figure dies, and is generally perceived as controversial, or even consensus-evil, are there any rules for it being okay to dissent from the RIP? Obvious example would be Bin Ladin, whose death got a standing ovation–if someone had started a MPSIMS RIP thread for Bin Ladin (I don’t know if anyone did) would the thread’s posters have been warned for jerkishness for saluting his death in that thread? Personally, as a New Yorker, I’d put Koch on my list (somewhere below Bin Ladin, but definitely on it) of “People Who Have Made NYC Worse” --I did find him useful for one thing: in city races where I didn’t know the candidate, I always looked for Koch’s endorsement so I could vote for the other guy, figuring that Koch’s guy was likely to be corrupt, irrational, or stupid, but otherwise he was a idiotic grandstander looking out for Ed Koch first, second and always. So, I clearly crossed the line of good judgment in Idle Thoughts’ opinion, but is there an actual rule about which public figures are deserving of unblemished RIP threads and which ones not, or is this a pure judgment call in the moderators’ personal opinions?

As I said in the PM, you could have ignored the RIP thread entirely if he wasn’t your favorite person or–if you wanted to rant about him upon death–started a Pit thread about him. Your description of “Evil” here is being extremely relative and subjective and it’s being obtuse to pretend any different.

You’re free to criticize anyone after death all you want…the way you did it and put it, however, crossed the “Don’t be a jerk” rule.

Here is the post (and thread) in question, by the way.

Expressing pleasure at someone’s death in an RIP thread is threadshitting, no matter your opinion, or for that matter the general opinion, of the deceased.

Good call by the mod.

Yeah, definitely threadshitting. Should’ve just started a pit thread to call him a Mr. Poopy Pants.

I’d say somebody who actually got elected multiple times in a generally democratic process multiple times and wasn’t eventually thrown in jail or run outa town for bad behavior does not meet any reasonable definition of evil.

Seemed like an obnoxious thread-shit to me, too.

IMHO it was in the grey zone (the one for loading and unloading only) for a couple reasons.
It was the third post. It’s not like there was a long string of lamentations about a beloved figure and he came in and laid out a nutty turd.
I’m not arguing the ruling (grey zone could go either way), just understanding the question: is it a general rule that you can’t speak ill of the deceased in an RIP thread.

Thinking of it in a slightly different way gave me a bit of perspective. Consider:

Notice I only changed the names. Both posts are completely neutral. Would the third post still warrant a warning?

Note I’m not making this a liberal/conservative thing. Similar to Giuliani, Koch was both loved and reviled by many. Those of us who grew up in and around NYC during the Koch years (Giuliani years) have a completely different perspective on him.

And won on both the Democrat and Republican primaries. By a lot. And started the crack down on urban chaos which often gets credited solely to Giuliani in ‘cleaning up NYC’.

So… yeah, if someone thinks he’s in Hell, I’d like to see that case made in the Pit and see if they can endure the pit-back.

Wrong. See this post by Dex, who outranks you, and clearly states that negative comments about celebrities are allowed even in obituary-type threads.

See also Jerry Falwell is dead.

The warning you issued is unsupported by board precedent, and should be retracted.

As Idle Thoughts stipulated to in post #2:

The warning appeared not to be specifically about speaking ill of the dead, but excessive dickishness about it. Not specifically the same thing. At least, that’s how it looks from here.

This comment isn’t nearly as dickish as some of those directed at Falwell in the thread I linked.

As I said, there isn’t a rule against speaking negatively against dead celebrity figures, even in said RIP threads. There’s a difference between speaking negatively and/or cracking a joke and the case here, which was breaking the “Don’t be a jerk” rule with the way it was done/said. The post was easily a (take your pick) threadshitting-type of post, put in such a way to get reactions, and had the good potential to start a debate or hijack. For any of these reasons was enough to get a mod note or warning…but the fact that it was done by a long-time member who should know better by now and who already has a history of previous warnings of jerkish-ness makes it definite.

The comparison to Falwell and Bin Laden is just silly. These are people who are globally disliked by a wide and obvious margin. Whereas in this case, the topic was a respectful RIP thread and just because a person may dislike a certain place, thing, or figure, doesn’t give them the right to blast in a thread like that.
Two other examples that spring to mind: Don’t like New York? Sure, you can say it…just don’t say it like this and at these times, in those topics. Make a Pit thread about it if you want to rant like that.

The warning stands.

Sorry, but OP, you are defenseless in this case. You know that wishing death to someone is actually against the Pit rules, so for you to be doing it in MPSIMS is inexcusable.

You got what you deserved. I can’t even imagine wishing death to anyone no matter what they did.

The rule is against wishing death on other posters, and you can’t wish death on someone who has already died. The comment was that he was glad the person is dead.

We went over this kind of situation when Ted Kennedy died in 2009 (also with analogies to Falwell, who had died in2007).

So I believe the moderation here was consistent with how threads like this have been handled in the past.

Mods have rankings now?

As opposed to other descriptions of “Evil” elsewhere that are absolute and objective? :confused:

I did not mention Bin Laden. The Falwell thread was a disgrace, but was tolerated largely because he was conservative and all the mods here are liberal. Since he was conservative, it was apparently ok for people to talk about pissing on his grave, popping champagne, and posting a fucking poem about dancing on his grave. Koch was a liberal, and here come the jackboots if anyone dares to disrespect him.

This is clearly biased moderating.

In that thread, the warning was retracted. Not retracting this warning is not at all consistent with that precedent.

The OP did.

Koch was a moderate who was not shy about endorsing Republicans if he decided to. And I don’t think pseudotriton ruber ruber was bashing him for being too liberal.

As I alluded to earlier, the mods had some extensive discussions about this after Ted Kennedy died because there was also some controversy about the moderation of some of the threads related to his death. The mods said that negative comments are allowed in threads like these, but that (assuming the thread isn’t in the Pit, at least) a little bit of decorum is expected. If that’s not the case with the Falwell thread, all I can say is that he died six years ago and we made some changes in how we handle these threads.

Different circumstance, though. That poster wasn’t warned for saying something negative about Kennedy in a thread announcing his death (although I think he did that). He started a thread about Mary Jo Kopechne the day Kennedy died, and twickster felt that was more or less trolling because he’d clearly started the thread in the wrong forum. She decided it was possible he didn’t deliberately break the forum rules, so she reversed the warning.