I don’t have a link yet because the transcript hasn’t been posted and the Today Show homepage is an homage to low carb recipes and the Friends farewell (both of which affect far more lives and future policies than some silly thing about naked prisoners in a country that’s not this one), but Matt Lauer interviewed Donald Rumsfeld on The Today Show this morning. When he asked “Does the Administration intend to issue a formal apology to the people of Iraq?” Rumsfeld, who looked pissed, replied something close to the following (I’ll post the exact quote when it’s available):
What the fuck is that supposed to mean? The question was (at least as I understood it and as I think most people would) “Is there going to be a formal and unequivocal acknowledgement of wrongdoing and attempt to redress the damage done by what can only be called a war crime?” and the answer is “Well, we looked at the pictures, haven’t we really done enough?” Sheezus.
If this were a Star Wars movie then the international revelation of these photographs are where I’d say “I’ve got a really bad feeling about this”. This is going to fuel more hate of Americans than the invasion itself. I swear that if I had custody of the guards I’d turn them over to the Iraqis themselves for justice.
AND WHY CAN’T ANYBODY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISTAKE HAS BEEN MADE ANYWHERE AND THAT CONTRACTORS WHO RAPE 15 YEAR OLD BOYS ARE A REALLY BAD THING THAT REALLY SHOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED? Fuckers.
After initially trying to defend the refusal to allow Brig. General Janis Karpinski (who is in charge of Iraqi prisons) access to the wing, he admits that it’s a legal gray area and is under investigation.
Towards the close of the interview:
[QUOTE]
LAUER: Real quickly, Mr. Secretary, if you will, would you support a congressional hearing into this, would you testify before that–that hearing, and would you issue a formal apology to the Iraqi people for these abuses?
Sec. RUMSFELD: Well, I–the–anyone who sees the photographs does in fact apologize to the people who were abused. That is wrong. It shouldn’t have happened. It’s un-American. It’s unacceptable. And we all know that. And that apology is there to any individual who was abused. It seems to me that this–these things have occurred.
I am by no means a fan of the Bush administration, but it seems to me that this is just looking for controversy when there is none. Bush very clearly condemned the actions of those prison guards, and Rumsfeld clearly said “That is wrong. It shouldn’t have happened. It’s un-American. It’s unacceptable” in the interview. They are not defending what happened in any way, shape or form. There’s SO much to criticize Bush and Rumsfeld for; don’t waste it on a non-issue. Unless there was something in Rumsfeld’s tone that I’m missing, doesn’t saying “we were wrong” constitute an apology?
That’s an exceedingly odd sentence. I didn’t see the clip so I don’t know whether he was just having trouble phrasing his response on the fly, or what. I’m with you, jarbaby; I don’t have the slightest idea what that first sentence is supposed to mean.
I do find it interesting that while Rumsfeld said, “That is wrong. It shouldn’t have happened. It’s un-American. It’s unacceptable. And we all know that. And that apology is there to any individual who was abused,” nowhere does he say “We are sorry” or “We apologize.”
This issue has come up before, but there’s a big difference between “yes, those things happened, and it was bad, and we feel compassion towards those who suffered” and “those bad things happened ON MY WATCH so I take at least some responsibility and apologize for my error”.
In a situation like this, where the US’s reaction is certain to be scrutinized at great length by people who are already not particularly fond of us, why not go all out and really, truly, apologize?
While I agree that Rumsfeld’s answer to the question “will you issue a formal apology” did appear (from reading the text) to actually be apologetic, taken-aback and sincere, an apologetic answer to a question about a formal apology does not a formal apology make.
These assholes will never utter anything remotely associated with an apology, nor will they even admit the their administration has made any mistakes, ever, for anything they’ve done.
This is why people don’t like us, they are to stupid to realize this. Now run along and discuss that.
Aw c’mon! The administration’s refusal to issue an apology is quite obvious. And certainly irritating, but let’s discuss legal positioning, shall we?(someone get me a lawyer to explain this)
You’re going to see the same refusal to apologize after a car crash if the responsible party has any legal experience. Why? Because an apology is frequently construed as an admission of guilt. Such an admission would be inappropriate if the case is still “under investigation” and would suggest the administration knows what really went down (no pun intended). The entire chain of command, including Yellow Cake, stands to get hammered for this (but by what court I dunno–who’s gonna carry out what sentence?) and any hints of admissionsof guilt will be happily siezed upon by whatever prosecution gets put together.
Still…Dick, Bush and Ashcroft (who I throw in for GP) are offensive individuals in my opinion.
No shit? Politicians don’t admit their mistakes? Bah. They’re PAID TO LIE. ALL OF THEM. I mean, what IS the definition of IS, anyway? :rolleyes:
What’s more, the Administration didn’t make the Pyramid of Buttcrack ™. Some misguided asshole soliders did, and now the flight-suit-in-chief has to juggle his nuts over the media chainsaw, because these GI fuckups thought they’d be cute about shit and take pictures of their insanity.
[slighthijack]
Personally, I stand in amazement at Rumsfeld, the guy’s amazing at the spin game, he makes Clinton look like a rank amateur. Ashcroft and his porntroopers have got to go, though and FAST.
[/slighthijack]
Please take note of the passive voice used throughout the interview. Neither Rumsfeld nor any other politician is capable of saying anything in the first person when it comes to this type of situation.
Note also how Rumsfeld neatly skirted the issue of the CIA running the part of the prison where the torture took place and that was off limits to the prison commander. This would not be the first time that soldiers have worked for the Agency and had a license to do nearly anything. These guys just got caught at it.
Rumsfeld is a gibbering geriatric who fancies himself as a virile shogun. He couldn’t spin a dredle properly, let alone traverse potentially embarrassing political minefields.
I find Pyramid of Buttcrack not the least bit funny when the culture of these men is considered.
It is true: the Bush Administration did not give the order for this treatment, but they did stay silent during the months after it was reported. They did invade a country using falsified documents and true stories of torture, then they set into system a bizarre penal system (private contractors as interrogators? the commanding General refused permission to enter the prison? What?
I am neither a bleeding-heart and I have contempt for (pardon the term) “blame America Firsters”; I was even pro-invasion at one point, though in light of how the war has been conducted I am beginning to have doubts. I’ll also admit that, as a gay man and an atheist especially, I don’t have a great amount of admiration for the modern Arab world- on the whole I think that it’s backwards, totalitarian, extremist, fanatical, misogynistic, barbaric and centuries behind the rest of the world, and if that makes me racist I plead guilty but I still thank whatever gods may be for not letting me born there. However, as much as I abhor the acts of Islamicists, we should respect their culture to the greatest degree that we are able and I think that what has been done to these men is on par with the crimes of the Nazis.
If this atrocity had happened to male American soldiers we would all be calling for blood and bombs (or at least I would), but the fact that this happened to Muslim men is truly terrifying. All of these men are products of a culture with incredibly rigid gender roles where anything remotely related to homosexuality is an abomination, and they were forced to strip naked and assume positions graphically suggesting one of the ultimate sins of their religion. Some were sodomized with objects and one teenaged boy was flat-out raped- there is no single greater indignity that can happen to them in their religion- it would be equivalent almost to an American Catholic being forced to curse Christ or drink urine as part of a mock communion.
Pardon my reiterating what most people already know, but I just don’t think it’s been dealt with explicitly enough in the press: a * CHRISTIAN AMERICAN WOMAN standing mockingly over a pile of *sexually exposed Muslim MEN who had been threatened with sexual violation and forced to simulate sexual acts on each other- the humiliation and insult of that cannot be overestimated. Now further consider that the Arab world hates us with a passion and has been trying to promote this as a Holy War, and that to Arabs all indignities demand revenge and retaliation as a matter of honor (they are one of the world’s last tribal societies and absolutely the world’s richest and most heavily armed tribal society: as with all tribal societies the notion of personal honor and dignity is literally sacred to them). These men have been dishonored in the most extreme way possible: had they had been taken to the outskirts of town and shot into a mass grave it would have been far less insulting and inflammatory. To Americans these incidents were disturbing; to Arab propagandists, they’re the greatest thing ever to happen- we’d damned near have to land troops in Mecca during the hajj to top it.
I hope to hell that I’m wrong, but I honestly believe that hundreds if not thousands of Americans and other westerners are going to die as a direct result of this incident. I think that this is going to swell the resistance in Iraq and bring to their aid radical Muslims from all over the Middle East, probably even including Iranians who have hated Iraqis since before Iraq and Iran were nations. Perhaps I’m being alarmist but I don’t see this as just a horrible but isolated crime but as a fucking nightmare of a fuck-up, and the Bush Administration has already missed the opportunity to fall on its knees and beg forgiveness, which in this instance is warranted. The Muslims aren’t going to give a fuck that the soldiers responsible are being court-martialled, but a grovelling apology, for all the indignity it would cause, is/was needed to save some American face on the world stage. Now it’s way past the stage where you could throw money at it.
Sorry for the rambling, but I really have an evil feeling about this one and I think the Bush Administration has fucked up big-time in how they’ve handled it, starting with the way they allowed the prisons to be established to begin with. I’m angry enough at the soldiers responsible that I swear I’d turn them over to the Iraqis given the authority, but of course that will never happen. They should at very least be turned over to the Hague to be tried for war crimes.
I’m not trying to be cute or funny here…I just don’t really understand at all what Rumsfeld is saying here.