It’s the New Babylonian Captivity
Russia transporting 400,000 civilians is a bit hard to believe, given other reports that Russia is having a hard time transporting even their own war dead.
Job for two years?! What a country!
And it’s a Russian general making the claim, no less.
Hey, why send a bunch of empty train cars back from the Ukrainian front?
For some reason, this sentence, combined with Putin’s obsession with Nazis and earlier info about mobile crematoria, comes out really chilling inside my head.
If Russia really is doing this, it’s just upholding the old gulag tradition.
Is there an area of Russia that isn’t depressed?
Mobile crematoria? I missed that.
Earliest mention I can find is about 3 weeks ago. Not a lot since then, either.
Thanks.
Economically?Pperhaps.
Psychologically? I doubt it.
Does not seem sensible. Most Ukrainians that are exiting to Russia are likely already very Russian. When things finally settle in Ukraine, if Russia gets what it wants. I think the plan would be to get those folks back to Ukraine. Particularly in the Donbass region. Ukraine is quite West/East split as to Ukraine majority areas versus Russian areas, as far as the people’s ethnicity and ethnic leanings go.
It is more likely for the Russian folks to want to and be able to get out of the war zone to the east, if Russian forces are in control of the possible escape routes.
Reports about this are inconsistent, which makes me think it isn’t true. The footage I’ve seen of these “chambers” suggests they’re more suited to things like medical waste (i.e. bandages) than whole human bodies.
I hope you’re right about that. Yes, my mind can go to some scary places. The 2020s have so far been that kind of decade.
400k people being forcibly deported is difficult to believe, given the Russians’ well publicized difficulties with just keeping warm and feeding themselves. I assume there are some forced relocations happening, because the Russians have shown there is no floor on how criminally awful they’re willing to be, but 400k is a lot.
My suspicion is that this messaging is essentially a warning from Ukrainian leaders to the civilian population: If you surrender to the Russians, you have no assurance of safety or humane treatment. Escape and resist by all means possible.
This is unlikely to be true.
We may be witnessing Mass Extermination.
Putin is capable of it.
The report of 400,000 deportees seems to come from spokeswoman Lyudmyla Denisova, who says that 84,000 children were in that group
A different report states that 15,000 people were deported to Russia from the city of Mariupol
That same report states that Mariupol is “normally home to 400,000 people.” Is it possible that this is where the 400,000 figure came from?
Other reports simply says that “thousands” of Ukrainians were sent back to Russia, without giving a definite number
The US Ambassador to the UN says we can’t verify the claims
To be fair and even granting (which is a stretch) a vaguely rational casus belli, ‘sensible’ describes little of Russia’s actions and strategy over the last month
That, and trying to lend credibility that they are “rescuing” these people.
I’m not sure it’s as clear cut as all that, as there are numbers of people of Russian ethnicity and language who nonetheless consider themselves Ukrainian and are fighting on Ukraine’s side in this war.
The Russians, by which I mean Putin & Company, would like you to believe it’s that simple but it isn’t. As a rather potent example - President Zelenskyy’s first language was Russian and he clearly considers himself Ukrainian (he is apparently fully bilingual with Ukrainian). I don’t think we should assume that a person falls on one side or the other of this war based solely on their ethnicity or language preference.
It is particularly problematic since any transported Ukrainians - of whatever ethnicity or language - are eyewitnesses to a truth that Putin wants to deny and suppress. I don’t care how pro-Russian someone from Ukraine might be (and I am certain there are some in that category) they will not be treated well nor will they have freedom of movement or access to any sort of public forum in which to speak the truth.
I doubt the numbers given - statistics are exaggerated up or down in wartime as serves the speaker’s bias - but I have not doubts some people have been forced into Russia, whether at gunpoint or by impending starvation. Reports are that they are deprived of their passports and sent… somewhere by Russian authorities so once they get there, wherever there is, they can’t leave.
That is also a possibility but as of yet we don’t have proof.
It would be good to be certain, but that is difficult in war.
I had heard that there are a number of Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine heading east into Russia from their destroyed cities like Kharkiv, for safety reasons. It’s like if someone has a gun to your head you will go wherever there is not a gun to your head. That said, it’s going to be hard to know how many are being “forced”. I am not sure how many are in this terrible situation, but I also have a hard time with the 400K number.