Well, there is that little thing called ‘a trial’ that Saddam neglected.
Evidently, he can. 'Cept the country is still there, but the brutal dictator is in chains.
Why is that, for God’s sake?
And, to the 4th ID, SOCOM, and the rest of the troops…
Bravo Zulu!
Sure, he can still lose.
Since I’m an American I suppose my opinion counts for something. And I think he’s a swaggering bully-boy who hasn’t a clue what the word “compromise” means or why it’s sometimes the best course. He’s a toady for the plutocrats, a spoiled rich boy who never suffered a day of want in his life.
Although I’m just as happy as everyone else that the Butcher of Bahgdad was found hiding like a scared rabbit in a hidey-hole, dragged into daylight, and is now in the custody of the US military (really, it couldn’t happen to a nicer dictator), that has not turned me into a Bush supporter. Please do not mistake the approval of one or two items to be a blanket approval of everything the man does.
This country has some serious domestic issues. Let’s be blunt - it ain’t the people overseas who vote on the first Tuesday in November. They said at one point that the elder Bush couldn’t lose re-election, but he did. The younger one still has ample time to shoot himself in the foot over some other issue.
We still can’t leave Iraq - the shooting’s not over yet. And Dubya is not yet a two-term president, and maybe never will be.
RTFirefly, PB clearly stated that we forgot. It would have made front page news, but it happened the same day that the flying saucer landed on the rose garden.
Or wait a second? That didn’t happen.
I guess I’d like that cite too, PB.
As a soldier with the 101st ABN here in Iraq, all I can say, thanks to 4ID. It’s a wonderful occasion, the capturing of Saddam. My office is currently working to rebuild the Judicial system in Northern Iraq. We emplaced Miranda rights, public defenders, vetted judges, prosecutors, and so forth. I know that the Death Penalty is currently temporarly suspended in Iraq. I see this being lifted in short time. Saddam Hussein will be tried in front of the Iraqi War Crimes Tribunal newly emplaced, even without the Coalition signing off on the tribunal. This is great news for the Iraqis, specifically the Kurds.
As for the reason of just calling him Saddam . . . it’s easier to say than Hussein. Saddam and Hussein are both extremely common names here in Iraq. As common as Mohammed and Ibrahim, and they were just as common before Saddam Hussein was born. Each Muslim here in Iraq has 5, yes 5 names and you typically only hear of the first two to three of the names.
Well, That’s all folks, feel free to write me if you have any questions about the Iraqi Judicial System. . .
I offer my thanks, Dryfreeze, and tell our boys in the 4th ID that they done good.
My two cents to commemorate the occasion.
HELL YES!!!
thank you for doing great work in iraq, dryfreeze.
a big thank you for bringing him in alive and well, 4id. his capture showed him as he really is. the guy who hides and covers.
My favorite Christmas present!!!
I think this qualifies for a…
GOTCHA YA!.
::Dressed in a gospel choir robe singing Oh Happy Day::
I think the neighbors will understand. 
I take your point. I have no quotes or cites, but I’m sure everyone would agree that Bush at least implied, if not actually stated, that there were enough weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to threaten the US and the rest of the world. Since these weapons have not been found after extensive searches, I’m inclined to believe they do not exist. But I agree, maybe they are just well hidden, and if not, it is indeed hasty to label Bush a liar. (Though, being honest, if a President is willing to risk the lives of thousands of troops and innocent civilians in a war, I believe he should have more than just a hunch about these things.)
I agree - I believe Saddam was a tyrant and that Iraq is much better off without him. Also, having heard the stories of Saddam’s sons, it sounds like it would have been a travesty for them to come to power. I just feel that it is too dangerous to let our governments do as they please in terms of invasion and war, as long as they ‘get their man’, even if they were just in doing so this time.
Firstly, I apologize if the US Death Penalty/Iraqi execution relationship has been discussed before, I do not frequent all areas of these boards.
I wasn’t trying to suggest the US death penalty is as unjust as untrialled Iraqi executions. I was just making the point that citing executions is not a sufficient basis for invading a country. Any intelligent government spin-doctor could present an argument for invading any country if that were true: ‘The US government kills thousands of its own people every year! Let us depose these tyrants!’ - facts can be ommitted, added or changed.
They frighten me because it seems as though Bush could lead us into as unjust a war as he liked, for his own purposes, and as long as he did it under the guise of ‘fighting terroism’ and got his man no one would question him.
I’m not saying that’s what’s happened here - I don’t know whether this war was just or not. I don’t know all the facts. I just hope that if Bush were ever to embark upon a war that was patently unjust, the public would be intelligent and strong enough not to support him.
It is indeed wonderful news that Saddam has been captured, however, and I especially congratulate the forces for taking him alive, without any unnecessary violence. It is good to hear just before Christmas that peace is on its way to being restored at last. 
Sorry about the long delay in responding; I was not at home most of the afternoon. I can’t tell you exactly where and when I saw that, only that it was on tv. I hop around from CNN, CNN Headline News, MSNBC, Fox News, and the local and national ABC channels for most of my news. One picture that is very clear in my head is that of an interview with a female scientist who looked to be in her mid-late 30’s, and had long black very curly hair. I remember that because it is so unusual to see an Iraqi woman who is showing her hair for all to see. She said words to the effect that she actually made a lot of the chemicals that were being tested for chem. warfare. And that she did not know where those chemicals went after they left her lab (in Baghdad?). She also said that had the lives of her family not been threatened, she would never have done what she did. How true any of that is or not, I can’t say now. But it seemed to me that it was at least partially credible, since it was on a major newscast.
As to the bit about the financial backing of Osama and followers, I only remember one clip about that, and that it was talked to death one day a few months ago. They said that proof was coming to light that Saddam, and perhaps several in the Baath Party, were funding, and certainly hiding, many of the Al Q.
I have no idea how to find those cites from tv newscasts, only that I remember them. Nor do I have the time to try to hunt them down. I’m not saying that President George Bush is perfect by any means. I am saying that I believe he is the one for this job, and he is at least not afraid to make the tough choices. As any military person could probably tell you, there are so many reasons why this is the best thing that has happened in that part of the world in a very long time. Not the least of which is that the Iraqi people are now free. That’s a good enough reason for me.
It saddens me that even those who should know me well enough by now apparently are questioning my veracity. My word used to count for something on this board. I have no reason to lie or to make any of this up. Believe it or not, as you will.
They look like brothers!!!
OK, let’s assume all that is true. What do you know?
Since we pretty much know that if Bush & Co. had found any chemical weapons, it would have been shouted from the rooftops, it’s safe to assume that:
Proof “was coming to light”??
I’m suspecting that, by the next day, the proof turned out to not be that strong after all. But that wasn’t as juicy a story, so it didn’t get pumped as hard as the initial story.
Wow, is that ever a wide-open invitation. You’re lucky I’m feeling charitable tonight. I’ll leave it to someone else to take you up on that one.
Your veracity isn’t in question. But your gullibility most certainly is.
I believe you’ve seen the TV stories you’ve seen. You just haven’t done a very good job of filtering them: of being able to distinguish part of a picture from the whole thing, mostly. You come here with a “they interviewed the scientists who made chemical weapons” claim, and even by your own remembrance, it turns out to be a lot less than that. You report a “evidence is coming to light” story, but ultimately what happened was that nobody accepted the evidence as being particularly solid, otherwise we who have been debating Iraq literally all year would know about it by now, because the pro-war posters would make sure we knew what the evidence was for their case.
RT, I have always admired you and respected you, and your opinion. I have often read something you posted that make me take a step back and re-think something. I look forward to reading many more of your posts in the future.
However, this is starting to feel very personal. All of us filter the information that comes our way, in one way or another. All of us. My filter is coming from an obviously vastly different perspective than yours is on this issue. Doesn’t make me right and you wrong, or vice versa. Just viewing things from a different place.
You don’t know me, I don’t really know you that well. You have no idea of what has gone into my filter this year, or what my perspective is on all this. And quite frankly, tonight is not a night I’m going to go into it.
I remember numerous clips on and about the scientists who were reputedly making the chemicals used in tests against their own countrymen. I mentioned the one that has stuck with me the clearest. I didn’t tell every word she said; in part for brevity’s sake, in part because I don’t have a perfect memory at all times for all things and did not want to misquote in any way. She was ordered on pain of death of her and possibly other family members, to work on these chemicals for warfare specifically. She had no reason to doubt that’s what they were used for. She merely tried to save face and say she wasn’t absolutely sure what they were used for in reality, or where they went. She may well not have known; it was hardly for her to need to know those things. Is that specific enough for you? I was just making some comments, about how quick people are to forget some things, and remember only what they want to remember, what’s PC for them to remember, or whatever. And somehow, this has turned into something else entirely.
And anyone who honestly, actually believes that there is any government on this planet who is at all times totally truthfull and forthcoming about every snippit of information that comes their way is living in dreamland. Such a thing would be not only not advisable, but in some instances downright deadly to too many innocents. The freedom of the Iraqi people is certainly an obvious and happy benefit of this war on terrorism; but hardly the only objective. There is a lot more at stake here; to all of the free world. I assume and expect that there are some things it is in my best interest to never know about. That is how I sleep at night. I couldn’t handle the burden of some of that. That is what we have governments for, to do the worrying for the rest of us on the really big issues.
I just deleted another paragraph I had typed. I can’t even say all I want to right now. I know what I know, and unless you have concrete proof that I am totally wrong and way off base on what I said earlier, you won’t change my opinion.
To get this thread back on track: It was a true pleasure being woken up by a phone call with the news of Saddam’s capture. All in all, it’s been a very good day. Take care, all. Goodnight for now. Or good morning, depending on where in the world you are right now.
Fills up water gun, squirts it in air as sign of solidarity with Iraqis
Yay! squirt squirt
They captured him during “Operation Red Dawn.”
Two of the locations secured during this operation were code-named “Wolverine 1” and “Wolverine 2.”
Somebody in the top brass is a movie fan!
I’m not sure I buy that premise. There might be any number of reasons to conceal such information.
…and continue to make it look like the war they wanted is a lie?
sigh meant to add something to that, and hit “Submit” instead of “Preview”.
OK, Saddam Hussein has been captured. What does that change for the ordinary Iraqi? Very little, as far as I can see. When do they get to choose their own leaders, instead of having the US appoint a council? Does Halliburton plan on turning over control of the oil wells to the nation of Iraq anytime soon? Now that the “ace of spades” is gone, when will the US withdraw the troops and let the Iraqi people assume full control of their own political affairs?
Calling this “Iraqi Independence Day” is a sick joke. If the Iraqi people themselves had taken care of Saddam Hussein and his sons, the phrase might actually have a ring of truth about it. This capture is just political coinage for the Bush 2004 campaign, and there are a lot of other issues that could make this fairly worthless come November.
Make no mistake about it - I’m glad Iraq is finally rid of him. But that doesn’t mean I think what replaced him is going to make Iraq hunky-dory for anyone except a handful of suits here in Washington. Both options disgust me.