I considered sticking some curse words into this and posting it in the Pit, but really I think it’s more mundane and pointless than anything else. Anyway…
I am really sick of anime fans who think that they are somehow gaining vast insight into Japanese culture by watching cartoons. Don’t get me wrong, I know that not all (or even most) anime fans are like this. I am not against anime fans or anime in general. I am against people who suffer from the delusion that having seen every episode of “Vampire Princess Miyu” qualifies them to be the next ambassador to Japan.
I am not an expert on Japan or Japanese culture. I have many Japanese friends, I have studied Japanese history and politics in college, I have volunteered as a conversation partner for Japanese students – I even lived in Japan for a couple of months as a small child. And yet I am not an expert. If your knowledge of Japan comes completely from “Serial Experiments Lain” then I can assure you that you are not an expert either.
I cannot say how many times I’ve heard some clueless anime fan make a ridiculously inaccurate statement about Japan based solely on information drawn from watching anime. For instance, I know one woman who firmly believed that many Japanese boys live alone, without parental supervision, because that is often the case in anime. It never occured to her that this might be a simple plot device used in to allow a boy to have adventures with a Magical Girl without fear that his mother would make him stop to do his homework.
Of course, few anime fans are that silly. Many, however, falsely believe that the presence of gay characters in anime means that the Japanese possess a liberal and openminded attitude towards homosexuality. The subject of Japanese views on sexuality is not a subject I can do justice here; it is not even a subject I can claim a deep understanding of. I think, however, that I can safely say that Japanese homosexuals are even more stereotyped and misunderstood by their society than their American counterparts.
See, whatever your favorite anime series or movie is, and no matter how good it is, it’s still a cartoon. It is not, and was never meant to be, a grippingly realistic depiction of the everyday live of average Japanese citizens. I know people from Japan who think that they know about life in America because they’ve watched “Beverly Hills 90210”. Pretty funny, right? But nowhere near as funny as the American who thinks she knows about life in Japan because she’s watched “Tenshi ni Narumon”.
You are quite mistaken. The vast majority anime fans ARE that silly, if not worse.
I myself AM sort of an expert on Japan, since I am fairly fluent in Japanese, have lived in Japan, and have a degree in Asian Languages & Culture. And I can’t count all the arguments I’ve had with otaku who have firm convictions about the language or culture based on what they saw in a cartoon, despite the fact that they’re absolutely WRONG and I can prove it.
I will reiterate the same advice I’ve been giving to otaku for years: if you want to get insight into Japanese culture by reading manga or watching cartoons, you will only be getting insight into a very small subset of Japanese people: anime/manga authors. Those people are extremely NONrepresentative of Japan as a whole.
As far as the larger issues, non-Japanese otaku are not aware of the issues surrounding “orientalism.” These people think they are exotic or special because they are involved with an exotic imported materials written with funny little squiggles that only THEY can decipher. They are Orientalists. That term is considered pejorative lately. Orientalists seek a special exotic status will rub off on them because they’ve associated themselves with a subject they perceive as exotic. And it’s a vicious circle, they have to pump up the exotic reputation of their subject in order to inflate their egos. How ridiculous.
I will close with a minor rant, directed at otaku:
No, I’m not interested in your favorite manga. If I was interested, I’d read it myself. No, I won’t translate it for you unless you pay me, this is my PROFESSION to some degree or another. No, I’m not interested in hearing about your favorite hentai, you wouldn’t go around describing the details of your favorite porn if it was in English, so why should you do it just because it’s written in Japanese? No, otaku-baka, I am not interested in your observations about Japan, I’ve lived there and you haven’t, and nothing you could possibly read will ever prepare you for the reality of Japan. And fanboy, you should make a tape recording of yourself and listen to it, do you notice you never stop talking, and nobody can ever get a word in edgewise because you are so fond of hearing yourself speak that your lips never EVER stop flapping? Shut UP ferchrissakes!
Having had ample opportunity to watch anime fans embarass themselves in front of real Japanese people, I’d like to add that most Japanese people are not going to be impressed by your devotion to “Urusei Yatsura”. They’re going to think that you’re a huge geek. You know how in the US most people think cartoons are for kids? It’s the same way in Japan! Sure, some animation is targeted at teens and adults, and some teens and adults even watch shows targeted at children – just like in the US. But despite what many American anime fans like to believe, animation in general is considered primarily children’s fare even in Japan.
From having watched anime as a kid, and specificalyy “Star Blazers” I came to few conclusions about Japanese culture.
The battleship Yamato is a pretty significant cultural icon.
Japanese people think Japan is a lot bigger than it really is. Every time they show a shot of Earth in that show, Japan accounts for about half the visible land mass.
Thin girl, lank hair, small boobies, big eyes = hot!
If you’re trapped on an asteroid, and everybody needs spare parts to fix the ship, don’t tell anyone you’re a cyborg or they’ll disassemble you.
If your commanding officer tells you not to push this button, you really shouldn’t.
All Japanese girls where tiny dresses and stand with their legs apart so you can see their panties.
Some Japanese people have no nose.
When a Japanese person is shocked they stand with their mouth agape for about 10 seconds, while otherwise motionless.
While fighting, Japanese people can jump really high or great distances.
A historic Japanese battleship converted to space cruiser can still function no matter how much damage it takes. This is proof of superior Japanese manufacturing techniques.
There is no obstacle that cannot be overcome by firing the Wave Motion Gun.
So, you see, I really have picked up quite a lot
Japanese people often speak with their eyes closed.
I think that you can gain much more cultural insight from playing Japanese videogames. According to shenmu a single japanese guy can beat up 60 guys and make their bodies fade to reduce polygon counts. Not to mention that only the main character is the only one rendered well enough to change his expression.
Thin? Yes. Lank hair? Sure. Big eyes? Yep. Small Boobies? Not in the animes I’ve seen. The damn five year olds have bigger boobs than I do! ::sniffle::
I think I can reasonably claim to be an anime geek, and I also think that I can reasonably claim that the stuff talked about in this thread doesn’t apply to me. I do not claim to have any special insight into Japanese culture because of my television viewing habits. I am not attracted to Japanese animation because of its exoticness; I am attracted to it because it’s good animation. And I have never tried to gain buddy points from a Japanese person by mentioning Urusei Yatsura.
Am I typical of anime fandom? I have no idea… I think I’m fairly typical of those grown-ups I know who also watch far too many cartoons. Admittedly, a friend of my SO recently joined a costume play club in Hong Kong, but that’s a totally different brand of geekdom taken one step too far.
All that being said, I feel obliged to mention that you actually can learn a lot about keeping rabbits as pets from reading the Japanese comic series Centaro. I laugh so hard every time I see that comic because I’ve been through so many of the situations the main character and his rabbit get in.
You need to watch some Leiji Matsumoto stuff (He’s the creator of Starblazers) - his women tend to be pretty sanely proportioned, and quite pretty. (Maetel is one of the sexiest females ever committed to film, and a typical Matsumoto woman.)
As to the OP, really, those fans seem to be the minority to me…most of us are pretty normal. Well…relatively speaking. Normal as geeks go, anyway. The persons described in the OP are… well, running gags, and objects of derision among most of the fans I associate with.
You see what I mean? Someone makes a passing remark about breasts and the otaku come in and are blathering on and on about the qualities of the breasts in their favorite anime characters. And yet they seriously believe this is normal and they’re not otaku.
Oh please, next you’ll be telling me that Rurouni Kenshin isn’t* accurate down to the very last historical detail. Or that there wasn’t really a hitokiri battousai. :eek:
Oh, and let’s not forget the people who think ‘otaku’ doesn’t translate to something disturbingly close to ‘geek.’ Then again, hell, most of us are proud to be geeks, so being otaku shouldn’t be that bad, right? Um, right?
(crewman) “We can’t use the wave motion gun, it’s too powerfull!”
(Captain, with pipe in side of mouth) “We have no choice”
BOOOOOOOM!
I myself have watched quite a bit of anime, but never thought it to be particularly revealing of Japanese culture. I prefer to get my stereotypes from the Gamera movies. There is a lot you can learn from a giant jet powered tortoise.
-Beeblebrox
FORD Six pints of bitter. And quickly,please, the world is about to end
BARMAN Oh yes, sir? Nice weather for it
So what you are telling me is that the japanese don’t sneeze when i talk about them behind their back?
Most of us watch it because of the good stories and/or animation but there are always a few who take
things a bit too far [cosplay, but is that worse than dressing up like a klingon or going to a football match in full club attire and matching make-up]
KKBattousai, what!!! next you’ll be telling my there is no such thing as Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu
.
.
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what ?
[puts his sword down]
IIRC Otaku is a Japanese word that refers to anyone who has become unusually obsessed with a subject, it’s a derogatory term meaning that you put your interest above all else.
Anime fans have embraced the word (without the negative connotations of course) as someone who is a dedicated fan of anime and/or manga.
OxyMoron, I’d tell you but then my left breast would have to kill you!
Scylla- I’m sure someone who actually speaks Japanese can correct what I’m about to tell you, but in anime terms an otaku is an obsessed cartoon fan with no life and generally poor hygiene skills. I heard once that the term originally meant invalid, and references the idea that otaku never leave home (except to acquire more anime). The brother from Gwi JJa Kajok is a prime example of a cinematic otaku. Of course, that show is no more a documentary than Sailor Moon is…
Oh, please. Two comments about breasts, only one of which fits your description, does not blathering make. Nor does it give me the impression that either Tengu or Lady Juliet are anything other than “normal” people… as for Scylla, well, I think most of the people on this board already know about him… And of course, we all know that no normal member of the SDMB would ever feel sexual desire for an imaginary character.
Chas, I am partly offended by your comments because I think you’re looking for deviant behavior among anime fans when, in this case at least, there isn’t any. It seems like your comments had less to do with the things said here and more to do with your apparent desire to insult anime fans. I am also offended because it seems like you might be referring to me as an “otaku”. You latest post seem to be saying that the response from anime fans to this thread has done nothing but confirm your earlier claims about what most anime fans are like.
Either you are ignoring my post (which I find rude), or you are calling me an otaku (which I find horribly insulting). Sorry if you think I am over reacting to this, but I can’t help but feel that you were deliberately trying to be offensive to me and the other anime fans who have taken part in this discussion. Tengu- I have to tell you that I always thought Maetel was kind of creepy.
Well then, you should be glad I ignored you and tossed my original one-liner response to your message, which went like this:
Yep, that’s what they ALL say.
FYI, the meaning of “otaku” in japanese is more or less what Saito says, except that it has the connotation “potential mass-murderer.” The term first came into common usage in the 1980s after an infamous murder case by an obsessed hentai manga fan, and was reinforced by several similar cases that followed.
I don’t need to go out of my way to look for deviance amongst otaku, it is obvious from their behavior in this thread, they go out of their way to push it in the face of anyone they can get to listen to them. They even think it’s cool. Let me tell you a classic story about otaku…
There was this guy in my Japanese classes, he was totally obsessed with hentai manga. His stated goal was to become a Japanese teacher, which he had little chance of ever achieving because nobody wants to hire caucasian American Japanese language teachers, they want native speakers. He also had slim chances because he was absolutely the WORST japanese speaker I’ve ever heard. Yet he still managed to con his way into the MA program through the back door (despite objections from the Japanese dept) and managed to get placed into the Practicum curriculum. This means he was assigned to a local elementary school as a Japanese teacher, and told to create his own lessons, and deliver them while a professional teacher graded his performance.
Otaku decided to create a lesson plan for his 5th grade class consisting of comics. Hentai comics, really lewd ones too. He xeroxed them onto overhead projector slides and put them up on the wall 5 feet tall in front of the class. This resulted in his immediate removal from the classroom and expulsion from the program, and he only barely managed to avoid getting arrested.
He managed to wheedle his way to a second chance after a couple of years. You’d think he’d have learned his lesson, but oh no, that’s not how otaku work, they think they are normal and everyone else is weird to think THEY are weird. He created a normal lesson, and delivered it to the class without a problem. But THEN, after class he decided to show his hentai to some of the kids. The kids were overheard by teachers discussing this, and otaku once again got expelled from the program, this time permanently. Now he’s working at McDonalds and is president of the local otaku club.
I’m not accusing you of anything this egregiously antisocial, I am merely making the observation that you share one trait in common with this otaku: the belief that your interest in anime/manga is absolutely normal, and absolute denial when someone says it ISN’T.
Anyway…