LOL I live in a christian society but it didnt take conscious effort to support gay marriage.
Youre surprised that forum with a great debates subforum is appealing to people who like debating contentious things? Really? Why?
Being pro-gay is not unChristian. it’s in fact very Christ-like.
And “absorbed mostly” does not mean “absorbed all Christian…” nor “only absorbed Christian…”
I’m pretty sure you’re still down with the not murdering and stealing bits…
This isn’t Great Debates, M. Chaussette .
Christlike != Christian. The bible and the church are clear being gay is wrong. Even if they weren’t my society (Ireland) isvery clear on it. How did I manage to not be homophobic given all the messages? Or maybe I am homophobic and just don’t know it?
So if you assert that I’ve inevitably absorbed objectionable christian messages by virtue of living in a christian society how exactly am i supposed to prove you wrong?
They’re not christian values. They’re human values that predate Christianity and that I would still hold if Christianity has never existed.
So what? Why do you care what threads i post in? I just happened to be reading this one and I just happened to see something i didn’t agree with so i posted about it. If that’s Somehow “not allowed” then what’s the point of any of this, Herr Arschloch 
Opinions differ on that.
No, neither the Bible nor the (I presume Catholic) Church are “very clear” on this. At all.
Really? You mean “very clear” as in “[among the most liberal in the world](https://Attitudes in Ireland towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people are regarded as among the most liberal in the world.)” on LGBT rights?
Maybe you were born at the right time. Maybe you’re lying. Who knows, and more importantly, who cares? Nothing a trock has to say is important anyway.
I don’t think you can.
Are they? Plenty of cultures have held that murder was A-OK as long as you murdered the right people. Same-same with taking their stuff.
I care when Mr Obvious Sock is being obvious. Especially when it’s in antagonistic responses to my own posts or those of my friends.
“Just happened to” be following the pitting of a long-time poster and taking the contentious side.
“Just happen to be” is soon going to be followed by “long time lurker”, no doubt. Socks are so predictable.
Naah, it’s sock puppeteering that isn’t allowed, mate. Good luck with that.
Well, I fucked up that link…
Ugh. What a load of handwaving nonsense that link is. There is a really easy way to see if the bible is pro gay or anti gay. You just look at what it says. There’s lots of famous anti-gay verses in the bible. I challenge you to find a single verse which portrays homosexuality specifically in a good light.
First, your link doesn’t work. Second, my lived experience (which, according to you, beats any cite) is that Ireland is still a very homophobic place. Third, if you knew anything about Ireland (which you clearly don’t) your know that it was a very anti-gay society for centuries and then got liberal very quickly in one generation. How is that possible if we’re all so susceptible to christian messages about how sinful being gay is because I can promise you one thing and that is that whatever made Ireland more liberal on gays it certainly has nothing to do with the Irish Catholic Church!
Then your argument is unfalsifiable so its worthless.
And? Do you think this proves morality isn’t innate or something? What are you even saying with this?
Yes. It’s a really big thread so I thought “What’s going on here?” So I clicked on it and read what was at the time, the last 30 or so posts. I saw one which made me think “That’s a bit daft” so I replied to it. That’s literally all that happened. I then got ambushed by a massive arsehole who thinks this is all some big impossibility.
You really do seem to be a nasty piece of work. Have you ever spoken to anyone about that?
Can we get this thread back to Sam and his unique version of reality?
Ok. Sorry for the diversion. It’s not like talking to Mr dibble is a great way to spend the morning anyway 
See, it’s stuff like that that points to the sockitude. How would you (incorrectly) know what one particular poster here thinks does or doesn’t beat a cite, Mr joined-last-week? Oh, I know you participated in that thread - but enough to know who’s who in it? Please! Your mohair is showing.
Jesus… do you really think I’m incapable of remembering an exchange from three days ago? That’s quite a superiority complex you have there.
Anyway, I promised gyrate I wouldn’t be a diversion any more so lets just leave it there eh?
You could just shut up and leave the thread quietly in an unsocklike manner… that’d show me.
I’m not a Christian. I grew up in a Christian, protestant society. The ethics of Protestant Christianity surround me, including:
-A belief that a personal pursuit of knowledge is more important than a trust in authoritarian knowledge.
-A belief that hard work is a sign of personal virtue.
-A belief that thrift is a sign of personal virtue.
-A belief that overt boasting is a personal flaw, and humility is a personal virtue.
-A belief that greed is a personal flaw, and that self-sacrifice is a personal virtue.
and so on.
Of course people are surrounded by cultural beliefs. Of course people are influenced by the spoken and unspoken values of the culture they grow up in.
For example, Western culture often emphasizes individualism, to the extent that people consider an influence by their culture to be a personal flaw. I’ll wager you get a lot more people in Western cultures claiming some sort of supernatural immunity to cultural influences than you get in other cultures.
It’s a bizarre idea, that hyperindividualism that suggests an individual doesn’t absorb the values of their culture. And it’s harmful, because people who can’t recognize cultural influences can’t analyze them, and can’t try to mitigate the ones they find harmful.
So when I hear someone saying they don’t have any racist ideas or influences at all, despite having grown up in a culture suffused with racism, it tells me that they’re unable to reflect on themselves and on their behaviors.
I’m afraid i can’t respond to that because I already promised another poster that I’d drop the diversion, sorry 
It’s also worth noting that Biden also cares about Trump supporters.
Excellent point. Biden cares about people. Trump does not. Simple. Elegant. Fits the facts.
It’s not unique enough.
Absolutely. I think I started an entire thread based on this premise. It’s one of the most important things we need to understand about living in our culture.
I don’t trust people who declare themselves “not racist” to be reliable narrators of themselves.
I think it’s Dunning-Kruger. They are so inept and understanding racial bias that they think they’re really exceptional at seeing it. If they don’t scream the N-word on the bus they just pat themselves on the back for how awesome they are.
There’s some of that, to be sure; but there’s also this bizarre virtue signalling aspect to it. Have you ever had that co-worker who smirks, “I’ve never taken a sick day in 25 years”? and you’re like, asshole, that means you’re coming to work sick and spreading germs? That’s the same person. Rather than admit that everyone’s body lets germs in sometime, they regard getting sick as a personal failing; and rather than take care of their bodies, they just deny that disease can possibly affect them.
Similarly, they insist they’ve never had a racist thought. Rather than admit that everyone’s brain lets in racist cultural idedas sometimes, they regard susceptibility to cultural influence as a personal failing; and rather than reflect on their own biases, they just deny that culture can possibly affect them.
That’s reasonable. I’m sure it’s a complex web of intermeshed stupidities.