Won’t someone please think of the Jewish-American princesses?
Someone doesn’t understand context, but it ain’t the Japanese. If you don’t get the historical context of the word, and WHY that makes it so offensive, I can’t help you.
Folks, whether we like it or not, words will always have bagage. If you can’t deal with the fact that people will get pissed at you for saying words that have historically been used as insults and slurs, that’s your problem.
Could you point out anyone in this thread who is arguing for bowdlerizing the past? That is how you are characterizing those who disagree with you, but I don’t believe that is really the position that most of your opponents are taking.
What we are saying is that out of just simple politeness (not the bugaboo of “political correctness”) we should avoid using words that are commonly considered racial or ethnic slurs. Since these words differ based on where you are, a certain sensitivity to your audience is required. For example, if “Jap” has no historical connotations in Australia, then using that word in Australia has no baggage associated with it, but if someone from Oz goes to California and starts talking about Japs then they are going to be misunderstood. Same goes with Brit; used by people from the UK and the US without baggage, but can be an insult in Dublin.
First of all, my argument wasn’t a strawman. I’m not even sure you know what that word means. I’ve already addressed that and explained to you how you misunderstood my point. Twice already, in fact. Let me state it one more time for you, in case it wasn’t completely clear the first two times: I am not now, nor was I ever, saying that you claim the term “Jap” was only ever used in the context of referring to the Imperial Armed Forces. What I did say was that this “historical context” you claim for this word never existed.
As to the cites you have not addressed…hello?? Both Miller and I posted examples of actual newspaper headlines from WWII which use the term “Jap” to clearly refer to persons of Japanese descent, even those who were US citizens, and NOT to members of the Imperial Armed Forces. Now, I’ll ask you once again since you failed to answer the first time: Whence this “historical context” you claim for the term “Jap?”
No, you haven’t taken the middle ground, because one of the positions you have described does not exist. No one is arguing for rewriting history to remove offensive racist terms. No one is arguing that we should censor works of art to remove terms we don’t like. Fuck, no one is even arguing that we should start enforcing some brand of hate speech legislation to prevent people from using these words casually today, even though we find the term insulting. I don’t know where the hell you got the idea that anyone is advocating this. It sure as hell isn’t from anything anyone said in this thread.
It was a strawman. You made up a strawman that I said that the Term “Jap” was only used in the context of of referring to the Imperial Armed Forces. You then went on to “prove” that it was also used otherwise, a fact I never doubted or claimed.
Yes, you have cites showing that the term “Jap” was sometimes used other than to refer to members of the Imperial Armed Forces. So? Did I ever claim otherwise? Do you have any cites which show the term was never used to refer to the Imperial Armed Forces? I claim that the term was used (also) to refer to the Imperial Armed Forces, do you disagree or have proof otherwise?
The key to this debate is that the **OP **used the term “Jap” to refer the Imperial Armed Forces, and for that he was castigated. He did not use the term to refer to the Japanese people. I only accepted it’s usage as ONLKY applied to the Imperial Armed forces. Thus attempts to shift the focus away from the term as applied to the Imperial Armed Forces are strawman arguments.
No one is disputing that the term was used as a racial slur. Your attempts to argue that it was used thusly are strawman arguments. You put words in my mouth and then show that the argument you put in my mouth is bogus.
Do you concede that:
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We should not use racial slurs, and if anyone is offended or uses it as a slur, it is a slur. Thus, even Brit, Yank, White trash, and yes “Jap” are all slurs that should not be casualy used.
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Historical context is everything. In their proper historical context, they should not be censored. “Nigger Jim” is acceptable in Twains writings or a discussion of Twains writings.
Or are you: “holier than thou, those who have bestowed upon themselves the crown of arbiters of what is good, right and proper. Those who cannot abide any tint bit of straying from the ONE TRUE PATH. Those who are always right, and will let everyone know it over and over and over…”
It appears from your constant stawman arguments and feeble attempts to turn my argument into something it isn’t, you are the latter.
As for no one wanting to censor Twain, you are sadly deluded. There has been a movement for decades to censor Twain.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock/beyond/huck.html
“In 1957, as the Civil Rights movement started to gain momentum, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) charged that Huck Finn contained “racial slurs” and “belittling racial designations.”… Since then, the book has been called “racist” for both the use of the word “nigger” and a portrayal of blacks that some consider stereotypical and demeaning. It has been removed from reading lists in schools from Texas to Pennsylvania. Born to Trouble chronicles one such school system’s battle: Kathy Monteiro, a Tempe, Arizona mother, recently launched a crusade to have the book removed from her teenage daughter’s high school curriculum. “I’m wondering as a teacher and as a mother, how you can ask kids to go home and read the word ‘nigger’ 200-something times in the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and then expect kids to come back to school and not use the word,” observes Monteiro in the film.”
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=3637
"John Seigenthaler
Censored repeatedly since its publication in 1885, Mark Twain’s The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was No. 5 on the American Library Association’s list of the 100 most challenged books of the 1990s. Criticized initially for its rowdiness and later for what some considered a sympathetic view toward slaves, Huck Finn has been challenged in recent years for its use of the word “nigger” and its racial content."
One final note- since this “debate” has been characterized by cheap debating techniques by certain others, I will no longer participate.
Lie all you want.
Punk-ass bitch.
Promise us you aren’t lying when you say this. 
Uh, no. Please reread what I wrote very carefully; I’m not typing it all out again just because you’re too dense to get it the first three times.
One moment, please. Since when is Brit a racial term? I’m fairly confident the populace of the British Isles is composed of more than one race.
See particularly, #5 in the second set of definitions provided:
“Any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.”
Or, under Synonyms:
“In certain broader or less technical senses race is sometimes used interchangeably with people. People refers to a body of persons united usually by common interests, ideals, or culture but sometimes also by a common history, language, or ethnic character: We are one people; the peoples of the world; the Swedish people.”
You don’t see it used this way much in the US anymore, but I understand it’s still in common usage in Europe.
You mean a Japanese National or a Japanese American?
To be real, we in Japanese living in Hawaii don’t use the terms Nips or Japs- it ain’t in our vocabulary.
Occasionally, we will call Japanese food “Jap food” etc. but we tend to be more indirect- we are going to eat at the okazuya.
We are most likely to be offended in any case if you say:
You Japs sure have strange customs…
You guys sure like your rice…
You Japanese are so polite…
Doesn’t appear to be true, except maybe in a closely parsed sense, anyway.
Many more via Google
There’s lots of twisty people in the world, even some Japanese.
As usual, I’ve arrived too late since Dr. Deth has apparently already bailed on this thread. However, in the event that he’s still lurking, or if anyone else cares to comment, here’s what I’ve observed.
It seems that Dr. Deth is unable or unwilling to draw a distinction (one which, to me, is rather relevant) between quoting from period sources and using period terminology within a discussion of that period. I have no problem with the former, but I find the latter to be in poor taste and certainly unnecessary.
For example, I am a black male who was born and raised in America. I don’t have a problem with someone reading from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and quoting, “The nigger run off the very night Huck Finn was killed.” That’s what the text says; I understand that. What WOULD bother me is that same person then analyzing the text by saying something like, “Mark Twain understood that niggers weren’t a generally accepted part of society at the time.” Even though the commentary is framed within a discussion about historical context, the speaker is now using his own “voice,” and therefore, one might assume, his own perspective. This is the same problem I have with the OP’s use of the term “Jap” (although I think it has been clearly established at this point that the OP was unaware of the word’s connotation in the United States). It sounds as though he personally condones the use of what is currently understood to be a derogatory term to describe a group of people, and that’s what’s offensive.
At any rate, I fully acknowledge that I’m tired and may not be expressing myself well. So be it – I tried.
No, you expressed it very clearly, you got the essence of the argument across very well indeed. Thank you.
Monty, “Brit” is deemed offensive in some communities in Ireland. Personally I never had a problem with it when I lived there, but some people do. And it means specifically “English” when used that way - hence the idiot taxi driver talking about a rugby match where “the Scots are playing the Brits”.
Not Life, but the US War Department: How to spot a Jap (warning, racist!).
Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already - I did read the whole thing, and didn’t see anything, but it is a very long thread.
jjimm,
Did you notice that, even while pretending to treat the Chinese as decent and people, that comic book still managed to have a negative stereotype referring to them?
You mean the stereotypical drawings, or the use of the word “Oriental” - which is a whole nother thread, probably rather horribly like this one. 