Many Dopers are fond of opining that, within our lifetimes–maybe within a decade or so–gay marriage will be legal in every state of the Union.* For myself, I don’t see its advent as quite that inevitable**; I worry that there will be a backlash, particularly if the matter is settled in the courts rather than the legislatures.
But let’s assume the optimists are right. Let’s assume that, by 1 January 2025, same-sex marriage is legalized in both the United States and Canada. (Hell, I’ll even toss Western Europe into the mix.***) What do you think the sexual landscape would look like on 1 January 2125? Granted, it’s likely that exclusive straights will always predominate, but how will the proportions of gays, lesbians, and bisexuals change?
SSM becomes legal in the West. How does the sexual landscape look in a century? Why does this come to pass?
Poll ends on 1 February; the answers are public. Multiple answers are allowed, but anyone who picks option 1 AND any of options 2 thru 8 is likely to be publically mocked. Not by me, as I am too fluffy a puppy to make fun of people.
Why yes, I am being US-centric in my phrasing. What’s your point?
** For the record, I hope that the optimists are right and I am wrong.
*** But not the entire world. F’instance, If the archangel Jibril descended on Earth leading a host of angels, and said host proceeded to cut off the heads of every single fundamentalist Imam, and Jibril wrote, in giant flaming letters in the sky above Mecca, “ALLAH IS FED UP WITH ALL THE HOMOPHOBIA! YOU GUYS HAD BETTER SMARTEN UP, BECAUSE YOU SERIOUSLY DO NOT WANT HIM SENDING MIKE DOWN HERE!” I still doubt Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and the like get with the program. And don’t get me started about the Chinese.
**** I am using “gay” to mean "men who self-identify as exclusively homosexual, and “lesbian” to mean “women who self-identify as exclusively homosexual.” Likewise, “straight man” or “straight women” means self-identified and exclusive. Because I feel like it. Is this contradictory to my usage in other posts? Probably, but I’m too lazy to check
I struggled with how to answer this as my gut reaction was that it wouldn’t change the number of gay people in the West, however I suppose the numbers could increase as
it encourages more immigration of gay people from less accepting countries, particularly as marriage gives a ticket to stay, and
more people feel more able to come out and practice their previously repressed sexuality as SSM gradually gives greater public acceptance of Teh Gay. (As an aside, coming from a country that already has SS Civil Partnerships and living in close proximity to other countries that have already granted full marriage rights, I do strongly believe that SSM encourages wider acceptance of gays in the community).
I didn’t choose to be straight; it just kinda happened. I see no reason why this would change in any political climate. So I’m voting for ‘proportions remain the same’.
What might change is the number of people pretending to be other than they are. So with acceptance, maybe the apparent numbers of non-straight people might go up, but that would be a artifact of better reporting accuracy. The actual numbers present wouldn’t change.
I think the number of gay men would increase due to greater acceptance but I don’t think the number of gay women would change much since they are largely accepted. So I get to be one of the people made fun of because I picked #1 and #11.
Marriage’s been opened up for gay couples over here in the Netherlands in 2001. As far as I can see, it’s changed nothing except that gay couples can get married.
I don’t think that actual proportions would change much, or at all really. But perceived proportions would probably tilt toward the GLBT end of the bell curve.
Are gay women largely accepted? The kind of person who might hate or be uncomfortable around gay men but not gay women is probably the kind of person who assumes that they’re all lipstick lesbians who despite being attracted to women spend their time trying to look sexy for men.
From personal experience…
> SOME men hate lesbians because they think we’re unfeminine men haters
> SOME women hate lesbians because (a) see above, (b) they think what we do is gross and (c) are worried they’re going to get hit on by an ugly dyke.
For the record, I’ve had more negative reactions from women than from men.
MOST people, thankfully, don’t really care or at least mind their own business, but there’s plenty of the other sort to keep us on our toes.
I didn’t answer, as none of the options included #2. #1 is an awfully good point as well.
You can’t really believe this.
Girl-on-girl sexual activity or “experimentation” is much more accepted in mainstream society, especially in a porn context and/or if the women in question are primarily sexually oriented towards males and/or if the activity is being done in the presence of males and at least partially for their titillation. And, of course, the women in question have to be sexually attractive to males.
But the dumpy-looking monogamous lesbian couple living next door? Not so much.
My landlady would like to have a few words with you about the crap she deals with when someone outs her at work. And this is in Massachusetts, where gay marriage is legal, and is generally gay friendly.
I picked number 1. What we see will change, without a doubt, but I don’t think the general desires that people have will. I don’t hold out much hope that legalizing gay marriage will increase acceptance of gay people, but I would love to be proven wrong in the practical.
Some day I will understand why people care about the bedroom habits of people they’ve never met, let alone fucked. Probably the same day I figure out how to eliminate hunger on a worldwide scale; and about 2 seconds before I get hit by that bus.
Actually, I do. It’s easy to hate a group of people you have very little social interaction with. But Gay Marriage brings gay people into social contact with straight people, because when they marry, they invite their parents, their great aunts, their cousins, their boss, their work colleagues, and mix them up with their gay friends. I’ve personally witnessed aging uncles dancing and joking with gay men at gay weddings when they’ve previously never (knowingly) encountered a gay person. Weddings break down barriers.
It also shows the world that gay people do normal stuff ‘just like you’ and don’t just spend their whole lives picking up strangers in seedy bars.
It’s hard to hate a group of people when you’ve seen them up close and realise they’re pretty normal.
I think another factor will be that, since people will be aware of homosexuality earlier (1) and also aware that it’s acceptable, there will be less people who delude themselves. The amount of gay folk born will be the same, but the amount outside the closet will be greater.
(1): I know I knew what lesbians were when I was 12. I don’t think I had even heard any reference to them when I was 10… actually, now that I think about it, I probably first heard the word “homosexual” in sex ed class, which means 5th grade. At that point I’d heard derogatory terms which mean “homosexual guy” but to me they didn’t have a sexual meaning; I hadn’t heard the female versions but that’s linked to “lesbian invisibility,” not to the Spain of the 1970s being tolerant of lesbians. The Kidlets are growing in a country in which same-gender couples can get married: definitely not the same.
Same sex marriage is already legalized across Canada. Has been since 2003-2005, depending on the province. So far, the coutry is not decending into a pit of moral turpitude, but I suppose it could over the next 95 years. We’ll see.
I can only go by my experience as a straight male in my mid 20s but ya I believe it. I guess my experience isn’t the same as some of the women of this board but so far I’ve known little more then a handful of lesbians, some were out and some weren’t. On the other hand I’ve only know three guys that I knew were gay.
The women received a much different reaction then the men. We had a pair of teachers in high school who were the stereotypical dumpy elderly lesbians. It didn’t bother anyone enough to do anything and this was at a Catholic school. I can only think of one lesbian who was treated different from everyone else and that was because she was a stereotypical man hating dyke and quite unpleasant to be around. The second part had a whole lot more to do with why she was treated differently then because she like women.
On the other hand I’ve only known one gay man who was treated well after he came out of the closet and I think that was because everyone knew he was gay well before he came out. A guy on my college football team came out and ended up quitting the team because of the way he was treated.
I don’t think that lesbians are necessarily treated well but I have seen them generally treated better then gay men. I’ve got some theories on why but that is clearly outside the scope of this thread.
This quote is right on the money for me. I’ve known some closeted gay people who’d live much more freely (making the appearance that they’d just now become gay) if / when gay marriage is accepted.
Uh folks - it is not “gay marriage”, it is “same sex marriage”.
Just because 2 men or 2 women get married to each other, that does not make them gay, nor is it tantamount to an admission of gayness or even bisexuality. It is an economic contract entered into with another person and sanctioned by the State.
Therefore, the existence of SSM everywhere in the Union can not change the ratio of people’s sexuality, at least not by 2025. Evolution doesn’t work that fast.
Last year, one David Klinghoffer on Belief Net caused a stir when he proclaimed SSM would harm straight women because: if homosexuality was normalized, droves of straight men would ‘go gay’. Since gay was ‘normalized’ and accepted, it would be much easier for straight men to hook up with the gay men for their jollies. Because wooing and romancing straight women would just be too darned much trouble, why bother any more??? This was soundly hooted down on his blog (and also Dan Savage got involved). Just goes to show the fear the fundies have of SSM and the desperate twistings and turnings of their minds in feverishly railing against it…Just thought I would throw this in because it was so bizarre. Carry on.