Same-sex relationships in cartoons aimed at kids

[AtomThought]

I thought this would be an interesting enough topic for my first post here. I don’t recall seeing it discussed before, apologies if it has been.

Over the last few years in the US, it seems that it’s becoming increasingly acceptable to depict same-sex romantic relationships between characters in animated shows whose target audience is children. In shows like Steven Universe, Clarence, the Legend of Korra, etc. Same-sex couples are starting to be portrayed as a part of life, no special attention being called to them, nor are they being portrayed negatively.

There is still a reluctance to show same-sex couples being overtly romantic, and some relationships have been confirmed by the shows’ creators after only being hinted at onscreen, but it certainly seems that recently, at least in the US, there have been more canonical same-sex relationships in these kinds of shows than even a decade ago.

I think this is great, and I don’t see a reason not to include LGBT characters and their relationships in children’s media, as long as they’re portrayed realistically. But others disagree. There has been the expected outcry from various Christian Fundamentalist groups, but I’ve seen some seemingly otherwise reasonable people arguing against it as well. Their arguments usually seem more rooted in ignorance than actual fact, though.

I’m interested in hearing the opinions of the people on this board. If they’re portrayed realistically, is there any valid reason not to depict same-sex relationships in cartoons aimed at kids?

[iiandyiiii]

@AtomThought

If they’re portrayed realistically, is there any valid reason not to depict same-sex relationships in cartoons aimed at kids?

No.

EDIT: Welcome to the SDMB (colloquially known as “The Dope”)!!!

[Trinopus]

I’m all in favor. It promotes diversity and toleration.

(Okay, yeah, and it pisses the hell out of people I dislike very, very much. I’m as guilty of schadenfreude as the next guy.)

At worst, this will entail a kind of tokenism, as we saw in the 70s and 80s with “the token black character.” The diversity will seem forced. But, hey, baby steps. It’s certainly better than some kind of Hayes’ Office ban on any such depiction.

[Flyer]

OP, you seem to be using “valid reason” to mean a non-religious reason–which shows a great deal of bias and bigotry on your part.

But putting that aside, I can think of one possible reason. Most surveys show that only a very small percentage of people call themselves homosexual. So if a lot of shows show same-sex couples, children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.

[iiandyiiii]

@Flyer

OP, you seem to be using “valid reason” to mean a non-religious reason–which shows a great deal of bias and bigotry on your part.

I’m unaware of any religious guidelines on relationship portrayals in cartoons. Do you know of any?

But putting that aside, I can think of one possible reason. Most surveys show that only a very small percentage of people call themselves homosexual. So if a lot of shows show same-sex couples, children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.

Depends on what “a lot” means – there are probably hundreds (if not thousands) of children’s cartoons available on TV and online – the ~5% (or whatever the percentage of couples are same sex) of that number could still be in the dozens or hundreds – is that “a lot” of cartoons?

[Procrustus]

@Flyer

OP, you seem to be using “valid reason” to mean a non-religious reason–which shows a great deal of bias and bigotry on your part.

But putting that aside, I can think of one possible reason. Most surveys show that only a very small percentage of people call themselves homosexual. So if a lot of shows show same-sex couples, children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.

I can’t think of any harm that might occur if “children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.”

[Tamerlane]

@Procrustus

I can’t think of any harm that might occur if “children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.”

Maybe they start to notice that they and almost all their friend are heterosexual and start to worry that there might be something wrong with them. Why aren’t they gay? Did they do something wrong? Why can they only masturbate to people of genders other than their own? Does God hate them for their blatant heterosexuality? Just think of the psychological torment!

Or perhaps not ;).

[VinylTurnip]

@Flyer

But putting that aside, I can think of one possible reason. Most surveys show that only a very small percentage of people call themselves homosexual. So if a lot of shows show same-sex couples, children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.

Children’s television shows gave me the impression that quicksand, ghosts, talking bears, falling anvils, cannibal natives, flying cars, spherical black bombs, and enormous sacks of money with a dollar sign printed on them were much more common than they actually are, and yet I’ve somehow managed to struggle my way into middle age.

[Foggy]

@Flyer

OP, you seem to be using “valid reason” to mean a non-religious reason–which shows a great deal of bias and bigotry on your part.

Because religion isn’t a valid reason to censor programing or anything else. If your beliefs tell you something is wrong, don’t do it, or watch it.

[John_Mace]

Adults in kids’ cartoons should never be seen above the knees and should never say anything other than: WOH-woh-woh.

[AtomThought]

@Flyer

OP, you seem to be using “valid reason” to mean a non-religious reason–which shows a great deal of bias and bigotry on your part.

By “valid reason” I meant a reason that isn’t “kids shouldn’t know about homosexuality”, “it might turn the children gay” or “homosexuality is wrong”. If you show me a religious reason that doesn’t boil down to one of those, I might consider it valid. Religious or not, those aren’t good reasons.

But putting that aside, I can think of one possible reason. Most surveys show that only a very small percentage of people call themselves homosexual. So if a lot of shows show same-sex couples, children very well may get the impression that homosexuality is much more common than it actually is.

I’m not saying that they should show a significantly higher percentage of same-sex couples than that which exists in the real world, just that their numbers should better reflect it. Even if same-sex couples are portrayed as more common, I can’t see much of a problem in children thinking homosexuality/bisexuality is more common than it is.

[Enginerd]

@themoss

I don’t mind that they exist, I guess I would personally steer my kid away. Not that I’m intolerant but I want them to be the most well-adjusted so they arguably have the best opportunity they can have.

Well-adjusted people know that there are homosexuals in the world and are at peace with that. Hiding homosexuality from kids is working against that goal.

[Channing_Idaho_Banks]

There have been gay cartoon characters forever. Remember Tom and Jerry? What about Ernie and Bert?

[Broomstick]

@AtomThought

I think this is great, and I don’t see a reason not to include LGBT characters and their relationships in children’s media, as long as they’re portrayed realistically. But others disagree. There has been the expected outcry from various Christian Fundamentalist groups, but I’ve seen some seemingly otherwise reasonable people arguing against it as well. Their arguments usually seem more rooted in ignorance than actual fact, though.

Let’s get real - there are a lot of CF’s that, if they had their way, media would never portray anyone who wasn’t also a CF of the same stripe. Given their bigotry I see no reason to take their objections seriously.

[AtomThought]

@themoss

I don’t mind that they exist, I guess I would personally steer my kid away. Not that I’m intolerant but I want them to be the most well-adjusted so they arguably have the best opportunity they can have.

I don’t understand. How would steering your kid away make them more well-adjusted?

[Tzigone]

@Channing_Idaho_Banks

There have been gay cartoon characters forever. Remember Tom and Jerry? What about Ernie and Bert?

I can’t speak to Tom and Jerry, but I thought “word of God” was that Ernie and Bert were not gay. Had no sexuality at all. Because they’re puppets.

No, really, it is frustrating how every relationship seems to be sexualized by fans now. I mean, in that they consider it border-line canon, not fanon. Not only between characters that are canonically not attracted to that gender (happens far more often with straight than gay characters, of course, because straight characters are far more common) but between every friendship and even very often between characters that are siblings. Mostly, I don’t see it between parents and adult children, but even that’s only mostly.

BTW, interestingly in my Justice-League-watching days, I did see the objection that inter-racial relationships should not be on kids’ shows after Hawk Girl and Green Lantern kissed the first time. I was kinda surprised, to be honest.

[panache45]

And by the way, are they just showing LGBT couples? Kids need to learn that it’s ok to be single as well. Not every straight person is shown as being in a relationship.

[AtomThought]

@Broomstick

Let’s get real - there are a lot of CF’s that, if they had their way, media would never portray anyone who wasn’t also a CF of the same stripe. Given their bigotry I see no reason to take their objections seriously.

Oh, I agree. I don’t see any reason to take their objections seriously either. I just noticed some arguments out there on the internet coming from people that didn’t seem like typical CF types, and wanted to know what people here thought about the topic. Honestly, I didn’t really expect much in the way of reasonable arguments against it.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Children aren’t as stupid as stupid adults assume.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

Originally Posted by themoss
I don’t mind that they exist, I guess I would personally steer my kid away. Not that I’m intolerant but I want them to be the most well-adjusted so they arguably have the best opportunity they can have.

@AtomThought

I don’t understand. How would steering your kid away make them more well-adjusted?

I will echo this question: How on earth will you kids be well-adusted if you hide from them the fact that in life, they will encounter some human beings who are homosexual? I don’t see how this will help them at all. So they get their first job, and find out that Bob the mailroom guy is gay… and they run screaming away from him yelling “UNCLEAN, UNCLEAN”! That’s not gonna go over well. Or will they live their lives out in a religious compound? I don’t get it.