Sanctimonious assholes unite!

The BBQ Pit
1

I’m not going to spend time with the details, if you want them, you can check out this thread

In the thread, I have stated sentiments to the effect that I feel that the mass abandonment of cultural, religious, and or family traditions, particularly those surrounding the holidays, is a bad thing. I also think it is not very nice, if not downright cruel, that increasing numbers of employers are not willing to either close shop or run with a reduced staff in order that employees may spend either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day with their families.

I wandered off a bit into the crass materialism of our culture, etc., and expressed irritation that a lot of people seem to feel that religion is nothing more than a recreational activity.

Apparently, according to the likes of pldennison, woodstockbirdybird, and Dinson this makes me a sanctimonious, moralizing asshole, or words to that effect.

Well, if feeling that it is important to be with family members that you might not have a chance to see often throughout the year, and/or attending religious services on days when it is traditional to do so, and that it wouldn’t kill the boss to make a few scheduling adjustments to allow people to do so makes me a sanctimonious asshole, then

I’M A SANCTIMONIOUS ASSHOLE AND PROUD OF IT!!!

I’m sure there are others out there who agree with me. Danielinthewolvesden, Crunchy Frog, Polycarp, Guinistasia? Care to join me in dropping a great big kopros on the heads of those who think that there’s something wrong with us because we feel there are things that have value that you can’t place a monetary price on, and that maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea if there were certain days set aside to honor those values?

2

Preach it, Sister!

Yeah!

3

Thea Logica, I’m with you on this. We had to have Christmas late at my house because my father had to work. We also had to cut Christmas at my grandmother’s short for the same reason. I really don’t understand why stores cannot just close down for 24 hours unless it’s an absolute necessity to have them open.

4

Note: I include ceremonial/religious days of other religions/cultures in this as well.

5

Let’s face it: if you are religious, you are by definition, a hypocrite, a sanctimonious asshole, and holier-than-thou.

And, since I’m a vegetarian, I’m a hypocrite too. See? See? Because I don’t eat meat, and some other people do, that makes me a hypocrite. Because I’m “judging” them, even when I don’t say a thing to them. Just like when anyone holds certain traditions, or values, or (God Forbid) religious feelings dear, they are automatically being holier-than-thou to everyone else.

Yep. Just accept it.

6

Well, my opinion is that religion is a recreational activity, and if you want Christmas off from work, don’t work for a company that stays open.

Ahhhh, capitalism.

7

Let me try and explain why this is a problem for many people.

Say you’re an atheist and you live in a town with four stores. Three are owned by Christians and one is owned by pagans.

Come Halloween, you need to run out for bread and milk. Damn! Pagan-owned store is closed. But hey, no problem, you’ll just go to one of the other three.

Fast-forward to Christmas. Again, you need bread and milk. You have only one store you can go to and because all the other atheists in the area needed bread and milk also, you’re screwed.

Life threatening? No.

Fucking annoying? Yes.

I realize that this all comes down to the number of Christians versus the number of atheists/agnostics/pagans/etc but here’s the thing. While it may inconvenience you to have to go out of your way to get to one of the three Christian stores on Halloween/Mabon/Beltane when the closest one is the pagan store, it inconveniences the atheists/pagans/agnostics/etc THREE TIMES AS MUCH on Christian holy days.

Not to mention the fact that there are many, many religions in the world and many, many, many different religions. You better get a schedule–you never know quite when one of your favorite stores will be closed!

8

Gee, now the Christians are being persecuted too? After dominating the religious fabric of the world for over a thousand years, after being forced down the throat of every poor child not allowed to make up his mind, after coloring and influencing many governments created in the past thousand years, after persecuting those who would dare to think differently, now you have to know the pain of working on a holiday - gasp!

I feel so sorry for you all. Having your most sacred day being stolen. Now you know how all the Islamic Serbs must have felt. Next thing you know, all us atheists will be driving all the Christians down the Mexico and systematically “cleansing” the country of them. I’m so sorry I’m not crying in conjuction with your tremendous pain. :rolleyes:

You might want to check out this website: http://www.religioustolerance.org , once you get off your moral high horse and stop judging those who dare to marginalize your mighty and all-powerful religion, of course.

Incidentally, I didn’t think you were a sanctimonious asshole until you started this thread.

9

You know, we already have a nice 4 page thread talking about this exact same thing. About the Christmas holiday part, anyway.

I thought this thread was about sanctimonious assholes! Come on! Come one come all!

10

Do you think these businesses would be open if there weren’t a hell of a lot of people using them? Since about 90% of the population claims to be a christian of some sort, I’m guessing a whole lot of the people running to the store, eating out, going to the movies, or renting videos are in that 90%. That was certainly the case when I was waitressing and worked on Christmas. We would always be packed to the gills with big families, many coming straight from church, and I swear, the tips were the worst and the moods of many these people were foul on that most holy of days. No goodwill toward food servers, you damn betcha.

I personally am an agnostic who never inflicts myself on businesses open on Christmas or Thanksgiving because I know that everyone out there is either in a hurry or is seeking to escape from too much family togetherness, but when I walked by the K-Mart this last Monday, the parking lot was overflowing, and you can’t convince me that all those people were non-Christians. I mean, I live in Iowa! Like friedo said, you don’t want to work on Christmas, work for a business that’s closed that day. Or do like half the waitresses I worked with did and call in sick.

11

You can read 4 pages of exhaustive discussion on whether businesses should be open on Christmas here.

Do we really need two threads discussing this? The other thread is quite brilliant, all on its own!

12

Sara, I’m not crying about it. Nor am I trivializing other religious group’s persecution. I just hate it that my dad has to work all the time, especially on Christmas. That’s all.
I just find it rather odd how you accuse Christianity of being so horrible. Yes, Christians have committed atrocities, have been mean and rude. Guess what? Those activities aren’t restricted to Christians. Plenty of other people that practice other religions have done the same thing. Hypocrites aren’t restricted to the Christian faith, although I do see a good many. But then again, we are all hypocrites in some way.
Oh, by the way, I’ve been to religioustolerance.org. I found it to be an articulate and informative website. I just had to get off my “moral high horse” first. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t judging anyone who wasn’t of my faith. That is NOT my message to anyone. I just wanted my family to be together for Christmas. That is all.
Oh, and after thinking about it, I retract what I said earlier about businesses being open. I completely understand it now; I just had a very limited perspective. Carry on.

13

It’s not bad enough that America works on the Christian schedule of businesses closed on Sundays. I can live with that, since it’s been part of the American culture since day one.

Now, we’re being subjected to businesses closing outright in the name of “family values”. I certainly don’t object to families getting together and all that stuff, but I really resent being forced to do without the things I want and need because some corporation decided to close its doors for the 36-hour period, leaving me with no place to get necessities or luxuries. And I’m treated to a four-page kvetch about how poor Thea Logica had to work Christmas Eve.

The concept of reasonable accommodation works both ways. At previous jobs, I’ve had to do a LOT of trading days off and vacation scheduling so I can have the days off which YOU say I am required to attend services. Yet those people who want Christmas off need only ask for it.

I gotta give you a lot of credit, Thea, for finally admitting to what you are, a la a Twelve-Step program. You are a sanctimonious asshole of the highest order, who cuts down the values and morals of others to martyr herself to some bizarre notion of religiosity.

As others have put it more eloquently than I ever could: If you don’t like it, honey, there’s the door.

Robin

14

Nocturne, was your father scheduled to work Christmas, or did he go in voluntarily? Is he in a profession where it is essential for him to be at least available on holidays?

It sucks when you have to shift your holiday schedule around because of another person’s work schedule. My husband had to work Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and New Year’s Day. That’s the nature of the business he works for. Next year, he might not work all of them. It depends on how his schedule is.

On the other hand, a person’s profession is a personal choice. I don’t know what your father’s profession is, but I’m sure when he entered it, he knew what the scheduling demands would be. My husband certainly knew, and when I entered healthcare, I knew there would be a high likelihood that I would be required to work holidays and weekends. If we didn’t like it, there are plenty of other occupations we could have entered.

Robin

15

You know what? Let’s have businesses open every day of the week, 24 hours a day. I am a night person, I don’t do much shopping on my work days, because I’m either working or sleeping. I’d like to be able to shop at 3 am, and I am really put out that all you “morning people” are hampering my style. So, let’s expect all businesses to stay open for me, OK? I want to be able to shop for a lawn mower in the middle of the night.

Oh yes! Of course! Our fairy godmother will wave her magic wand and wheeee! Everyone who wants Christmas off will be magically granted it by his/her employer. It’s just that easy!!! And of course, all the people who are sorry that they had to work Christmas only did so because it never occurred to them to ask for the day off. And here all along it was just that easy!!! But everyone was just too thick-headed to think of asking. Yeah, that’s it.

We have covered this issue exhaustively on the other thread. Wanna give it a look, everyone?

16

Wow. What did Thea ever do to the Islamic Serbs? Not that there ARE any Islamic Serbs. I think you must mean the Bosnian Muslims. Are you really trying to equate wanting time with the family with ethnic cleansing and genocide? Huh.

17

msrobyn, to answer your questions:

  1. It wasn’t voluntary.
  2. It wasn’t his regularly scheduled workday: he had to cover for someone who called in sick.
  3. He is a pharmacist, and I understand that his job is essential. My problem with the issue was that he was supposed to be off that day.

Of course, he knew what he was getting into when he took the job. That doesn’t make the fact less irritating.

18

I am guessing that the person who called in sick didn’t have a magic wand that they could wave to get off on Christmas, so they called in sick instead.

So this “merely asking for the day off” thing isn’t too effective.

19

Another Deadly Sin heard from :rolleyes:

20

My father is a pharmacist as well, and I can tell you about many, many ruined holidays, school plays, nights out with the family, because he was paged to fill someone’s prescription. He had to bring his pager to my college graduation.

And, IMO (and this is what my previous employer did), if there is a high number of people calling off sick because they did not get a holiday off, the company should reserve the right to ask for a doctor’s note. If you’re scheduled to work, you should be there.

And, I will reiterate my opinion once again. I am tired of having my values shit on (I know that’s what kopros means) because they might conflict with yours. And I especially resent the notion that I am supposed to suck it up and celebrate Christmas because the rest of the country does, and it’s easiest on the poor service-economy people when everything is closed.

Robin