BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb containing deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed finding of any of the banned weapons upon which the United States based its case for the Iraq war.
Two people were treated for “minor exposure,” but no serious injuries were reported.
The deadly chemical was inside an artillery shell dating to the Saddam Hussein era that had been rigged as a bomb in Baghdad, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.
“The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,” Kimmitt said. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.’
**Ok, a weapon capable of terrible destruction has been found in Iraq.
Should we now all agree that Saddam was a bad boy bent on evil, or shall we continue our silly rationalizations which posit that Uncle Saddam didn’t have any mean illegal weapons?**
Um, that shell was reportedly a decade old. The argument was that Saddam had the capability, means, and motivation to produce weapons of mass destruction with which to attack the US.
This proves something we already knew - he had them 15 years ago, largely because we helped him get them. It proves bupkis about Bush’s claims today.
Was this “Saddam’s” in any meaningful sense? There were plenty of these shells floating around during the Iran-Iraq war and immediately after Gulf War I. Failing to account for all of them (and note that the US has similarly “lost track” of chemical weapons) is not hardly a threat as immediate and grave as we were led to believe.
[Bush] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! AAAH! AAAH! SEE? SEE? I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU ALL!!! AAAAHH! WMDs! WMDs IN IRAQ! THEY WERE THERE! THEY WERE THERE! IMMINENT THREAT! GAS! POISON! DEATH! THEY WERE THERE ALL ALONG! I WAS RIGHT! I WAS RIGHT! (pause) Yow! The election is in the BAG, now! [/Bush]
So…anyone want to use the same “where there’s smoke there’s fire” analogy used to point fingers at the entire military after Abu Ghraib, or does that only work when it comes form an American campfire?
Well, I heard that they said " a small amount" of Sarin has been found.
The thing seems to be discovered “in a bag” and exploded by accident which caused " a small" evaporisation of “some” sarin.
I suspect that there are several such shelves that once contained sarin, were cleared from that substance yet survived somehow in empty state. Which can lead to them having indeed still “a small amount” (one needs to know how “small” that “small” is in reality) of the product (is that a poweder?) somewhere attached in it. It is in my opinion not impossible for the resistence to have posession of such shelves they see as empty and recycle them for attacks.
If the thing would have been loaded with sarin, I don’t think those who discovered it and made it explode would be able to tell about that. I think we would see a few dead by now here and there in the neighbourhood of that explosion.
So I should say: It is a bit premature to come on board with oversized red coloured Victory titles, Milum:)
I have of course no idea how this is reported in the US media. But I can imagine one and an other…Hehe… Once again: How convenient this Big News is.
I wonder how many Big News From Iraq will surface in the following weeks and months.
As astonished as he’ll undoubtedly be, I actually agree with SentientMeat on this. The fact that a single shell was used means nothing. There are any number of likely reasons for such a shells existance that doesn’t have anything to do with making the case that Saddam had loads of WMD. They could simply have been in a forgotten bunker, or lost in myriad other ways. Hell, they could have been laying around out in the desert from the Iran/Iraq war for that matter and just recently found.
When I see underground bunkers filled with C/B weapons and delivery systems I’ll be more inclined to believing Iraq had vast stocks of the things. Even if they found them I still would not believe that the US had to invade Iraq when and how we did. I still think it was a huge distraction from going after terrorists and rebuilding Afghanistan.
I can’t believe we have to go through this debate again.
YES WE KNEW HE HAD THEM! As part of the dozens of UN resolutions, Saddam was required to report the ones we didn’t know about, AND SHOW PROOF HE DESTROYED THE ONES WE DID KNOW ABOUT.
In all the hundreds of threads on this subject, that proof was never provided, and VIOLATED the UN resolutions.
We all knew he had them, that he wanted them, and that he was looking to make more. That was why we had all those inspectors in looking for them. The problem was that Saddam claimed first that he didn’t have them, and then second that he destroyed them.
Again I want to repeat, if he destroyed them he was required to show proof, something that he would not do.
This statement seems to me to be a straw man. While it is true that there are a few extremist that believe that Saddam did not have one single WMD, most of us that were against the war are as surprised as the pro-war folks that none have been found.
More to the point, this thread is pointless. You will never convince anyone. We were told that there were Massive Stockpiles of banned weapons and that Iraq was a gathering threat. This was dead wrong. The very best case scenario is a staggering intelligence failure. This is not good leadership.
That being said, I will 100% be sure to keep an open mind. If we find any warehouses or other huge stockpiles of banned weapons that seem to have been made after the first gulf war, I will have to rethink my position.
Anyway, first of all, as someone else has already mentioned, the US has “lost” chemical weapons before, as well.
Second of all, the point of this thread was statign that this “agent” being released is rock solid proof that Bush’s claims that Saddam had massive facilities for the production of large scale WMDs for use against the American people, which is what I’m addressing. Whether Saddam complied or not with the UN (we all know he did not, but then, the US has ignored the UN “on occasion” as well) is beside the point.
So unless you’re going to bend over, reach up your ass, and yank out a map to where the production facilities for nerve agents in Iraq are, I’d thank you kindly to step to the side and keep mumbling to yourself.
Heh heh, actually I believe xt and I likely agree on a great many things unrelated to our differences regarding the role of government, being as he is a reasonable and intelligent gent.
lol. Well, I’m the same lovable guy I always was. I’m sure we’ll butt heads in future debates. But not on this one I don’t think, at least not narrowly about what the OP is babbling about.
Whats REALLY astonishing though is, I’m actually in somewhat agreement with Aldebaran! Somewhere in hell a devil is reaching for his winter coat and trying to keep out of the way of encroaching ice…
Iraq still forms a immediate threat to Our Nation Under God.
These evil Iraqis make home made bombs using empty once-sarin-holding shelves. And even more immediately dangerous: These uncivilized Bad People don’t wash them with good old soap and water before filling them with explosives.
It is my mission of God to figt All Evil.
I knew I was called to become President of the USA when I was still governor of Texas.
I know hear that same mighty voice telling me that everything is good as a trick to Win The Coming Elections.
No fear. You simply undergo the inevitable influence of my shining presence on these forums. No need to struggle or try to resist this overwhelming warm and relaxing feeling. You can’t escape anyway.
Salaam. A
President Bush told me that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction that were a gathering and immediate threat to the United States.
What we just found is a ten year old shell with such trace amounts of sarin that they require noit. Additionally, this shell appears to have been used by Al Quida, not Saddam Hussain or his military and the people using it most likely didn’t even know that it was a chemical shell.
A shell is nothing huge - an artillery piece fires at least several a minute. Show me a couple hundred more and I might start believing some of Bush’s original claims.
