Savage Love Column -- Who Was Out of Line?

You really should re-read the original article.

Engaging in prostitution is a high risk activity per se. Sharing a dildo with a prostitute and any number of other clients is a high risk activity per se. Any precautions one seeks to limit the riskiness of engaging in sexual activity with a prostitute are reasonable.

He says he signed a “contract” with her, but he put the word “contract” in scare quotes, indicating that it wasn’t anything with genuine legal significance, just part of the role playing. It doesn’t sound like anything he was under any legal obligation to honor, it doesn’t sound like he was “topping from the bottom” anyway. Just asking for clean equipment. It sounds like this particular sex worker is an insecure control freak who can’t handle it if a customer asserts the slightest authority. She should find another job.

Of course, why anybody wants to actually PAY to take abuse from psycho control freaks is something I have absolutely no ability to relate to in the first place, so I know I’m not getting the culture here at all.

No one here is suggesting that he should never ask, or that he has/had no right to ask - especially not me. I am very much in favor of open and detailed communication about methods and any concerns the client may have, at the appropriate time. While they are in the middle of the scene is not the appropriate time, and the client was fully aware of that before he chose to behave the way he did.

Actually, there’s a technical concern here that I was hesitant to bring up, but it seems cogent. Most pro doms operate on a per-hour basis - that is, a client contracts for x length of time and pays $y for it. If he wants her to clean it his way, to his specifications, he’s going to have to cough up money for it. If he just wants to see her clean it, then he’s going to have to be present off-the-clock, which may or may not interfere with her schedule, and may even interfere with another client’s time, who pays to perform these services for her, to her specifications. (Yes, it happens, more often than you would think.)

So, is he willing to pay for her time to clean it his way? Is he going to bitch about getting extra minutes on the end of his session, because the time spent talking about cleanliness or other concerns “doesn’t count”? Is the time she spends addressing his concerns going to be productive and cement a business relationship she wants to keep, or is it wasted time trying to pacify a client who has been a problem in the past? All of these are questions that a pro has to answer to her own satisfaction, because she is running a business. If she doesn’t treat her time as very valuable, she will rapidly go out of business.

Re: pro doms and prostitution. Being prosecuted for prostitution is one of the primary concerns for a professional dominant of any stripe, because sex work is so vaguely defined and codified in many places in the U.S. Because of this, many pros will not engage in any sexual activity with their clients, and will not allow them to orgasm while on premises. There is no truth to the idea that the point is always for the client to orgasm; quite often it is the opposite. The pros who will do things like anal training have to walk a very careful line in order not to put themselves at legal risk, often going so far as to have the client do any and all penetration on themselves, with the dom simply directing the action. Again, orgasm is usually not involved, because of the risk associated with being perceived as a prostitute.

And, on a personal note: prostitutes also have a say in the activities they do and don’t engage in for the price negotiated, and also have rights. I find the idea that a sex worker should have no say in the course of the assignation repugnant, at best.

On preview:

It sounds like she didn’t have any respect for his behavior in the scene, which I think is a different thing. Being a client or a submissive by no means necessitates being treated with disrespect, but it sounds very much like that’s what he was paying for. That being the case, if he were unhappy with the dynamic and unable to function within it, he had a perfectly acceptable out: safe word. That ends her rights to dictate what he can and can’t say, and allows him the freedom to ask all the questions he likes. If she can’t or won’t respect his inquiries at that point, she’s behaving unprofessionally. Up until he chooses to end the negotiated scene, she’s within her rights (and upholding her responsibility as a professional) to disregard any expressed discomfort or nervousness, to give him the experience he is paying (probably quite a lot) for.

Believe it or not, I sympathize with your last statement.

Says who? I say the appropriate time is whenever the hell the customer says it is. Who the hell is the prostitute to say when it’s appropriate for a paying customer to ask questions or act any way he wants?

Shouldn’t the Johns be entitled to clean equipment as a matter of course? Does a dentist charge extra for sterilizing the equipment?

Also, what’s wrong with letting him bring his own dildo? That doesn’t take any extra time at all.

Dio, I would like to very cordially invite you to join me in the Pit. Thank you very much for your time and attention. :slight_smile:

I haven’t read through the rest of the thread yet, but this stuck out to me. NO YOU DO NOT! In my humble opinion. It’s not that simple. They asked for a steak and now they are acting as if they asked for chicken, that’s absolutely inappropriate behavior in a restaurant client. If they say: “Hey, I’m sorry, I just now realized I would prefer chicken.” Then you go and get them chicken.

Both professionals and clients have rights and standards that they ought to follow.

As to the situation in the OP, if she was attempting to insert the dildo at that very moment then he may have had a point and in that case he had a safe word to get out of the situation at which point he could discuss the situation. If, as seems vastly more likely, she was merely bringing it up for next time, then he was being a jerk by acting in the way he did. In either case if he felt uncomfortable about the situation he * should have used their safe word* and then spoke of his concerns. I am not into that scene and really don’t know what the standards are, but I believe this is the proper way to handle it.

Thank you for the response.

Happy to help and LMAO*.

*You just provided an Airplane-style “guy still sitting in the taxi” moment for me. :slight_smile:

Makes sense…I’ve heard people use the same reasoning for sex…i.e., don’t bring up complaints or suggestions while you’re doing it.

From what you guys are saying, it’s less about the sanitizing itself and more about the fact that he didn’t trust her enough. (And it wasn’t really the time or the place since she seemed to be talking about it in the future.) That said, it does seem like maybe more is going on…would you really stop seeing a client over this? Maybe he had a history of topping from the bottom and this was the last straw.

Holy cow! I’m flabbergasted. This is not just a prostitute. I’m not going argue one way or another about whether a dominatrix is a prostitute or not; that’s not really the point. Whether she is or isn’t a prostitute she clearly not simply a prostitute.

Look, imagine you are taking a martial arts class and you are in the middle of sparring with the instructor and without asking to stop or even ceasing your attacks you ask to see the instructor’s credentials. Yes you have the right to know that the instructor is properly credentialed, but you’ve been going to this class for a while without asking to see them and now you are asking –in the middle of the class while delicate and dangerous things are going on– to see something you’ve tacitly assumed existed for some time now.

Again, you have the absolute right to see those credentials, in my opinion, but you are being a bit of a jerk to ask about it right in the middle of class. If the situation is such that you feel you have to deal with the issue right away, you say something like “I’m sorry, can we stop the class for a moment, I need to talk to you about something” and then ask about the credentials.

I think it’s laughable to compare it to a class. There are no other students. There’s nothing “dangerous” going on. It’s just a sex game. He’s paying for the time, and the time is his to do with as he sees fit. She’s there to follow his agenda, he’s not there to follow hers.

What’s wrong with topping from the bottom anyway? Who’s paying who here?

Why is everyone making tortured analogies to meat and karate class? What’s wrong with reality? A john paying a prostitute for sexual activity being worried about engaging in something that could potentially infect him with an STD. It’s not the same as asking a karate teacher what’s up or telling a waiter you want chicken. It’s not a remotely apt analogy.

I’ve given money to the Obama campaign. And that ho still hasn’t put out! I’ma have to call him up and let him know how this money-exchange thing always works.

It’s a little more than just a client’s individual tastes and preferences, don’ t you think? Would you let a whore shove something up your ass if you knew she did the same to a bunch of other men who engage in sex with prostitutes? “Dangerous” might be a bit hyperbolic but I’d say as sexual activities go it’s about as dangerous as it gets when it comes to transmission of diseases.

How about this as a thought: The people that are involved in the Dominance and Submission subculture do not define this as prostitution and as such to consistently keep calling it that is disrespectful and insensitive.

Nothing would be wrong with it, if that was what was agreed to.