My contempt for Movie!Aragorn is not irrational. It is capricious, unfair, reactionary, and paternalistic, but it’s not irrational.
Eowyn was strong and brave and beautiful. But she also fell in love with the first powerful non-familiar man she ever met, basically because she wanted out of her current life.
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Movie!Eowyn trips all my big-brother reflexes. Aragorn broke her heart and thus he must die. The fact that he did so unintentionally is not a defense. That is what big brother means and why my baby sister chooses to live in another state.
I don’t mean that the Dunedain were villainous. Just that they’d want the weapons because they’d want to defend themselves. And if Movie!Aragorn decides to take your gun out of your hands, he’s going to succeed. That is what Aragorn means.
Do bear in mind that even movie Eowyn ended up happy with Faramir, who was almost as Numenorian and awesome studly as Aragorn. So, really, Eowyn is OK without your ripping Aragorn’s face off.
Wait a second - why, precisely, are we fighting a two-front war? Saruman may have been warped by Sauron’s palantir, but he’s not a genuine ally - and Sauron himself is probably the more serious threat to Middle Earth. Unlike Sauron, Saruman is a more-or-less mortal human actor, with readily comprehensible and rational geopolitical goals. (Saruman wants to conquer as much as he can - Sauron does as well, but has a mystical/ideological/genocidal agenda as well.)
Can our Marines negotiate some form of alliance with Saruman against Sauron? If so, that could do wonders for the Marine logistical base. Saruman’s already industrializing, after all. As for containing Saruman after Sauron’s been dealt with - well, there are options. You could have smaller Marine teams help Rohan and Gondor industrialize as well, for example - they probably couldn’t do it fast enough to stop Sauron, but they might be able to do it fast enough to deter Saruman. Especially if the Marines made it clear that, while they might look the other way for some limited adventurism, any major land-grab would cross a real Red Line so far as they were concerned.
Hmm. That only works if you surprise him, if there’s any advance warning, and no Gandalf to protect people, he will use his Voice on anyone who gets near enough to attack him. He’d certainly be able to beguile anyone within sniping range. So, unless you have a missile that can destroy Orthanc and kill him in one shot, he’s at best escaped and at large, with no-one about who could kill him, and at worst has control of a good number of your forces.
Honestly, Saruman is probably the most dangerous enemy your forces face.
I personally am not willing to throw Fangorn and the Shire under the bus in order to gain some temporary tactical advantage (and widespread industrialization) when we have the means to eliminate Saruman as well as Sauron. And, remember, the timing has to be right in order to ensure the destruction of the Ring. So I am not willing to tinker with the schedule of events. Take out the non-Mordor Fellowship, replace it with 5000 Marines to carry out the same actions.
Yes, but not from a position of strength. He offered Saruman nothing, save the opportunity for the expenditure of blood, sweat, toil and tears. If Saruman had fought the war Gandalf asked him to fight, he’d have been taking on the brunt of the war himself, and been greatly weakened in the process without accomplishing his geostrategic goals.
Our Marines have a very different offer: Provide logistical and (limited) combat support, and we’ll both remove your most dangerous rival and improve your industrial base. Decline, and we relieve you of your industrial base, your empire, and your life.
In terms of the silly OP, I have made things both better and worse for Eowyn. Better because Aragorn dies before she can even meet him; but worse because, as Eomer pointed out, her melancholy began long before she met him. Her infatuation for Aragorn was a symptom, not a cause, and I daresay she will do something Klingonesque no matter what happens.
Mr Excellent, we’re fighting a two-front war because, though Saruman has his own ambitions and plans to seize the Ring, he is, even in the book, nominally Sauron’s vassal. (Remember, Sauron sends a Nazgul to fetch the captured halflings and clearly expects Saruman to hand 'em over.) If you take your Marines to the Gondor-Mordor border and try to completely preempt the story, you might succeed, but you’ll likely find Edoras obliterated in the meantime.
Good luck on getting a ride home after THAT.
ETA:
Also, Gandalf’s offer to Saruman was from a position of strength. He was head of the Order at that point and was trying to be merciful; he was looking for a reason not to cast him out entirely. Angel rules require such.
Saruman can’t beguile at long artillery range. I question as to whether or not he could even beguile at sniper range, particularly if he doesn’t know the sniper is there. The guy doesn’t just stand at the top of his tower yelling sweet nothings into the air.
Also, Mr. Excellent, making an alliance with Saruman is the one thing that might allow him to actually master 21st century weapon systems. He can’t get that technology instantly, but give him a few months with contemporary weapons, and he might well get the hang of it. He’s a smart guy.
If the ring is destroyed, removing Sauron’s power, and Gandalf and the Balrog are dead, Saruman is by some margin the most powerful creature in Middle-Earth. He was only killed in the book because of carelessness, and he’s not stupid enough to be careless when there are forces of unknown strength assaulting him. Unless his powers were blocked somehow, no sniper would get near enough to him.
Side question - what happened to Gandalf’s ring, and how was it kept from Saruman? If he get’s that, it’s definitely game over.
He would probably grasp the basic principles extremely quickly. Remember, he’s not human, and has a greater understanding of technology than is humanly possible. Understanding is not the same as implementing, though, and even for a Maia of Aule, it’ll take a while to go from “basic principles” to “outfitting an army”.
And you absolutely do not want to try for any sort of alliance with Saruman. You’ll get your alliance, all right, but the terms of that alliance will be “you are Saruman’s bitch, and you will like it”. Voice, remember.
I don’t think the Three grant the kind of power that the One does. Their power is to preserve.
In any case, I don’t think Saruman could see it. Otherwise he would have seized it when he held Gandalf.
Saruman can’t defend against threats he doesn’t know about. That’s why Isengard and Orthanc are the first target. An artillery strike on Orthanc will likely kill Saruman, but if not, a sniper can. Saruman literally won’t know what hit him.
I doubt Gandalf’s ring has features Saruman can use. It wasn’t made for war.
And Oy! is right about Saruman being vulnerable. You can do it by playing on his arrogance and vanity. Obliterate the dam, then offer to parley. He’ll take you up on it; he’s that confident in the power of his voice. You just have a sniper half a mile away with order to kill him as soon as he shows his face.
I think this could only work if Saruman had no idea you had long range guns, otherwise he’d simply not show his face. I’m not convinced that, if he had the slightest conception that snipers existed, he could be killed by one - how is it fundamentally different from a concealed archer? I’m sure he had precautions against them at parley.
I can see tricking him being possible, but only by concealing most of your strength. Doing that, and still making it into Isengard, that’s the challenge as I see it.
Anybody got a timeline on Faramir’s movements after his meeting with Frodo and Sam? And when does that meeting take place wrt our forces being portaled in? Finally, would 500 well-equipped Marines be enough to take and defend Osgiliath, and is there enough time for them to get there from the insertion point?
If Faramir can return to Minas Tirith unscathed, with his fighting force undepleted, and good news for Denethor, this should be a good start on saving the Steward’s sanity. In addition, rather than destroying his palantir, sending an envoy along with Faramir to demonstrate (with the drone-enabled comm system) the ways in which it’s been deceiving him should be enough to keep him as a useful resource.
FedEx requires that you provide a street address, including postal code, for deliveries. That does not exist for Orodruin. Additionally our delivery drivers are free to decline to enter an address if doing so would expose them to danger of life and limb. This rule exists to protect them against vicious dogs but I’m thinking orcs qualify, not to mention IT’S A FREAKING LIVE VOLCANO.
