We aren’t the ones who think our fucking selves need fixing, you are.
And of course it’s not your “job” to act like a lady. But if you want to be treated with the courtesy, respect and deference traditionally afforded to ladies, it would behoove you to act like one.
So you are saying that women are ‘asking for it’.
So you are saying that women are ‘asking for it’.
So you are saying that women are ‘asking for it’.
So you are saying that women are ‘asking for it’.
We don’t want to be treated like men, we just ask to be treated as human beings, not slabs of meat to be appraised by the male court of public opinion as to whether we’re hot, a MILF, a bit of juicy ass or whatever the current term is.
That’s all. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just fucking cut it out. That’s all.
And there it is in a nutsack folks.
Read this and read it again.
How about a male construction worker? While you’re on your way to a job interview? Would it really just make your day and put a spring in your step and boost your confidence so you nail that interview? After all, a compliment is a compliment.
And unwanted sexual attention is unwanted sexual attention.
Other way around. When perverted little creeps come out with their disgusting revelations, it brings out the longshoremen in us.
(yes, I mean you, you aren’t even aware or what you’ve revealed about yourself in your posts, are you? It is distinctly unsavoury)
What was the ‘hot chick’ in question acting like?
How was she acting that no longer required her to be treated with the courtesy, respect and deference traditionally afforded to ladies?
CMC fnord!
The problem lies in the spin you’re putting on it.
Since the dawn of…well, homo sapiens, women have had sex appeal and men have taken notice.
Women benefit from this in some ways, and they suffer from it in others.
Men benefit from this in some ways, and they suffer from it in others.
But in the final analysis, it just is. It’s as natural for a man to notice and comment on a woman’s good looks as it is to comment on the looks of a cool car or a work of art.
But contrary to anti-male liberal spin, that doesn’t mean her good looks are all that there is to her. We are well aware that attractive women have varying degrees of intelligence (and may well be smarter than we are). We know they have jobs or careers, families, interests, etc…all the things that go into making a person a person. It’s just that for that moment we’re focusing on and appreciating her good looks.
Now, you could adopt the pre-1968 attitude that this is just men, nothing can be done about it, look at it with bemusement and get on with your lives, or you can go through life being non-stop pissed off that men are constantly ogling women, drawing deliberately inflammatory inferences from it, and making yourself frustrated and miserable. But one thing I can pretty much guarantee you is that it isn’t going to stop.
It’s one thing to say that it’s wrong for men to grope, attempt to rape, or actually rape women, or even to cat-call them. Women are objectively harmed by these things and that makes them wrong. But women are not objectively harmed by male comments on the hotness of women. Such claims are a matter of opinion. This is made obvious by the fact that so many women spend a great deal of time and money seeking to look as hot or attractive as possible. Many women are not spending a great deal of time and money seeking to be groped, attacked, raped or cat-called.
So it’s a matter of opinion, and frankly, a matter of politics.
So when you rail against us, we know that this is just your opinion, and while you’re certainly entitled to it, we don’t feel much compulsion to bow down to it, especially in the face of insults and truck driver language.
So it you want us to change, you are basically asking for a favor. And it would therefore behoove you to behave in ways that might make us more likely to acquiesce. And behaving in ladylike ways traditionally has drawn more deference from men than has calling them assholes and fuckers and telling them they need to stop being such pigs and fix themselves.
But I can tell you that men are never going to stop noticing and making assessments of women’s attractiveness and desirability. Homo sapiens evolved so as to make women desirable and men to pursue them. Thus women get many options to select from in order to get the best mate, father for their children, etc. The downside is that this also means women are going to draw lots of attention from men, and most of it unwelcome.
But men are hardwired to notice and be drawn, even if only from a distance, to attractive women. They know that in most cases they aren’t going to come close to getting these women, but there is a measure of satisfaction to be found in the camaraderie of other men who agree that yeah, that chick is hot! It gives us common ground to bond over, and in a small way, an experience to share. Plus we generally think of it as a compliment to the women involved, and not a demeaning insult.
And this is what you see when you read something like, “Damn, they moved that hot chick so Condi Rice could have her seat!” Offending women is the furthest thing from a guy’s mind when he writes something like that. It’s merely an attempt to garner agreement and companionship in mourning the loss of the good-looking woman he was enjoying looking at.
And like I said, none of this is likely to change soon, if even at all.
For example, I’ve become close friends recently with the younger brother of a female friend. He’s a pretty good kid. 17-years-old, hard worker, salt-of-the-earth country boy, and a good-looking kid to boot. But I happened to mention to him the other day that a certain young woman who works at a store near his house was transferring to a store in a different location. The conversation went like this:
Him: “You mean Angelica?”
Me: “Yep.”
Him: “Damn! She’s good-lookin’!”
Me: “Yeah, she is!”
Him: “I’d hit it!”
Me: “;)”
To you this probably looks like male assholism at its finest. To us, it was merely a way to jokingly bond with each other over our mutual loss of this good-looking girl that we both enjoyed seeing from time to time. For some reason men like to commiserate with each other over good-looking women we know we can’t have.
There’s a scene in the movie The Four Seasons where several middle-aged couples are staying in a house together while on vacation. One of the guys is a recent divorcee with a hot young girlfriend. The two other guys are down in the laundry room when she comes flouncing in to put some laundry of her own in the washing machine while theirs is drying. She smiles and chats for a bit, maybe kisses them on the cheek, and flounces back out again. I think she was wearing only a men’s shirt and panties but I could be wrong. The two guys give each other knowing looks, sigh and exhale deeply, and go limp over the machines in frustrated longing.
But I digress. The main point with the anecdote about my friend’s brother is that after fifty years of anti-male feminism and faux-male outrages to rail against, nothing has changed. The exact exchange I had with her brother could have taken place fifty years ago between me and my own friends of that age.
So no, it’s not all about you, and it’s not all about us being insensitive assholes, or thinking of women as hunks of meat. It’s basically just good, clean fun where guys commiserate over hot babes they know are out of reach.
And if you want us to change (men in general, that is, not just on this board), then like it or not you’re going to have to undertake some positive steps to make it happen. And acting like we’re all assholes is not gonna do it.
Guess what?
She wasn’t “treated” in any way. She has no idea it even happened!
Cripes!
Lemme tell y’all about a place I frequent called the Pattern Palace.
The Pattern Palace is a discord server dedicated first and foremost to the works of an erotic hypnotist who is most famous for his “Mind Melter” series of audio files. These files use various methods to hypnotize and condition people (the target audience is mostly women, although he has a lot of male fans) to be, in his words, “Brainless ditzy bimbos”. Other works of his emphasize domesticity, dehumanization, existing primarily to please men, et cetera. As one of my friends said after listening to “Fuck and Suck and Cook and Clean”: “I think that noise I heard in the background was Judith Butler cocking a shotgun.”
I bring this up because if someone showed up on that server legitimately espousing the kind of views that Starving Artist supports, they would be banned within a day. If not banned, then at least shunned by the vast majority of the community. Because in any space, especially a space like that, when you let legitimately misogynist shitheads run rampant, women tend to not stick around. When you enable a culture of shitty misogyny (as opposed to tongue-in-cheek kinky misogyny), the people effected by that culture fuck off. And the mods there know about that.
Food for thought.
(Also how fucking arrogant do you have to be to speak about the experiences of a group you’re not a part of, have every member of that group who responds say, “No, you’re stupidly wrong, shut up”, and respond by saying, “Am I so out of touch? No, it’s the [del]children[/del] women that are wrong.”)
We’re gonna leer, and we’re gonna grope and we’re gonna say whatever the hell we like whenever the hell we want to and we’re going to treat you like shit and there ain’t nothin’ you can do about it bitches… It’s all YOUR fault. If only you’d get back in your box where you belong, we might deign to be different.
The answer is “no”. We will not let you maraud around like you own the world, mate. Get back in YOUR box. Nothing will influence you. You’ll carry on with your rape fantasies and your weird ideas and your smutty conversations with children regardless of whether you encounter any throwbacks to the 1950s. It’s what you are. You are not well.
You don’t have to be arrogant at all. You merely recognize that you’re in the midst of a bunch of people who’ve been brainwashed by man-hating feminist dogma while eagerly swallowing victim pills for, in most cases, all their lives.
Most of the people in this country don’t buy this shit, it exists almost solely within the liberal bubble. If you’ll remember, something like 76% of the residents of Texas saw no problem with the quote above the lockers in the Houston school. I would expect roughly the same percentage the country over, liberal hotspots excluded.
You may wish to have me banned, but fortunately the moderators and administration of this place find value in dissenting opinions and don’t want it to turn into an echo chamber where people like you can spout whatever you like free from challenge.
if you’re so convinced of the certitude of your opinions and beliefs, it beggars reason that you’d feel so threatened by my comments and observations contrary to yours. One would think you’d content yourself, as most here do, with claims that anyone with a view different from yours is simply a moron.
Frankly I’m flattered at your endless attempts to get me banned, as it shows I must be scoring points.
Thanks.
Fucking troglodyte
“It’s not arrogant at all to accuse people of being brainwashed because my claims about their experiences are false!” Why is this person not already on my ignore list? They have nothing of value to say.
Oh please, if I wanted that I would have reported these posts. Being a misogynist shithead isn’t against the rules.
When literally every single woman poster in this thread is saying you’re full of shit, and not a single woman poster endorses your approach, then if you’re not an arrogant fool, you’d recognize that maybe the way you’re posting might be incorrect.
But you’ve shown again and again that you have no ability to change your mind or take on board what others say, so we shouldn’t have any hope that you’ll ever learn something that might cause you to change the way you post about something.
What you miss is that calling someone a “hot chick” is inherently dismissive and demeaning. The word “chick” is a dehumanizing way of referring to women, all on its own. Referring to a woman as “a chick” is already frowned upon. Adding “hot” only makes it worse.
And it wasn’t the single comment that made people think UltraVires was a misogynist asshole. It was after multiple women explained the problem and he kept on ignoring them. And bringing up the whole PC thing because he was told to “stay focused.”
It’s not dissimilar to when black people explain why “thug” is offensive, and certain white people ignore them and whine about “political correctness gone mad.”
I think Starving Artist is heavily invested in his viewpoint being accurate because if it isn’t then he has to confront the unpleasant and uncomfortable fact that he has been complicit in actions that demean and oppress half of humanity. No one wants to be the bad guy, we all want to be the hero of our own lifetime narrative.
So I get why he adamantly refuses to admit he may be wrong on this issue. The sad thing is that he won’t even consider that he’s in the wrong. It’s not like anyone is saying he’s deliberately been an asshole or a misogynist, no one is claiming he’s unredeemable. I’m sure he’s capable of being a polite gentleman and has good personal hygiene, he can be kind and generous, and so forth. But he IS in the wrong in how he views the issues addressed in this thread, as point out by every female poster and most of the men as well.
But he will never admit it.
That’s right ladies, we’ve all been brainwashed and so we need the guidance of someone like SA to help us understand our own feelings and experiences. The nice advice from the Mayflower Madam will help us not act like men. It’s natural and expected that men be crude but women- it’s not natural and it’s certainly not ladylike.
His refusal to consider that Doper women might actually be fully functional and rational human beings is as bad or worse than his philosophy about how women should act and react in various circumstances.
It’s amusing to see some men essentially argue that if women and other men want that first group of men to change, we have to change first. But it’s clear that we have. And that’s what scares them.
Can we pin this post under About This Message Board? At least the last paragraph?