Saying Hot Chick = Being A Misogynist Asshole

[chaika]

This thread and the one that precipitated it are perfect, absolutely perfect illustrations of the culture and climate of the SDMB that women have been objecting to for years. Some of the usual suspects (i.e., the posters who can always be counted on to express sexist attitudes) have rocked up. And the same tired old notions have been rolled out yet again.

An incomplete list of these depressingly predictable attitudes:

• It’s PC gone mad, we can’t say anything anymore. Subsection: white men are the real victims.

• But I meant it as a compliment! If you don’t receive it that way, it’s your fault.

• Objectifying women is exactly the same as any other sort of comment about someone’s appearance.

• Women are overly sensitive.

• Sexual harassment is rare and easily avoided.

• Sexual harassment only happens to women who invite it in some way.

• When presented with statistical evidence about the prevalence of sexual harassment, this evidence is ignored, the source is discounted, and/or nitpicking of irrelevant details occurs.

• Women want it both ways; they want to be treated “like men” (whatever that means) and also want to be treated “like women” (ditto).

• Men can’t help it. You girls are just so purty we can’t possibly curb our behavior or language.

• All the women I know are perfectly happy with sexist language and attitudes. Therefore no woman could possibly object.

• The only people who take issue with misogyny are those who belong to some extreme lunatic fringe.

• If women would behave in the particular way I deem acceptable, men would treat them decently. If they insist on behaving in any other way, men have every right to treat them however they choose.

I could go on, but I’m already depressed that it was so easy to compile that list.

[Superdude]

@kambuckta

Only the women here apparently. Every other woman that SA has met in his life has been entirely subservient, happy to be dehumanized and just overjoyed with their role in life. They never complain, they’re just HAPPY to be women.

Well, remember…it’s always the pre-sexual revolution era in what passes for Starving Artist’s mind.

[wonky]

@chaika

I could go on, but I’m already depressed that it was so easy to compile that list.

On the plus side, threads like this make it real easy to fill out Misogyny Bingo Cards!

[octopus]

While out among the unwashed masses I heard a woman talking about “sexy chicks”, her words not mine!!!, with another woman. I had to restrain myself from interrupting and turning that misogynistic, dehumanizing, objectification into a teaching moment.

[Eonwe]

@octopus

While out among the unwashed masses I heard a woman talking about “sexy chicks”, her words not mine!!!, with another woman. I had to restrain myself from interrupting and turning that misogynistic, dehumanizing, objectification into a teaching moment.

It’s tough, isn’t it, to realize that women can be perpetuate the patriarchy just as well as men? And it’s tricky, as a man, to know how to respond to those moments. In general, you probably did right by not interrupting two strangers to try to police their overheard conversation.

[Mean_Mr.Mustard]

I dunno. I work mostly with women and have done so for decades. It is not at all unusual to hear a pair or a group of them carry on about a random guy’s hotness. Note that these are professional women in a workplace setting.

Just offering another perspective.
mmm

[Biotop]

@chaika

This thread and the one that precipitated it are perfect, absolutely perfect illustrations of the culture and climate of the SDMB that women have been objecting to for years. Some of the usual suspects (i.e., the posters who can always be counted on to express sexist attitudes) have rocked up. And the same tired old notions have been rolled out yet again.

An incomplete list of these depressingly predictable attitudes:

• It’s PC gone mad, we can’t say anything anymore. Subsection: white men are the real victims.

• But I meant it as a compliment! If you don’t receive it that way, it’s your fault.

• Objectifying women is exactly the same as any other sort of comment about someone’s appearance.

• Women are overly sensitive.

• Sexual harassment is rare and easily avoided.

• Sexual harassment only happens to women who invite it in some way.

• When presented with statistical evidence about the prevalence of sexual harassment, this evidence is ignored, the source is discounted, and/or nitpicking of irrelevant details occurs.

• Women want it both ways; they want to be treated “like men” (whatever that means) and also want to be treated “like women” (ditto).

• Men can’t help it. You girls are just so purty we can’t possibly curb our behavior or language.

• All the women I know are perfectly happy with sexist language and attitudes. Therefore no woman could possibly object.

• The only people who take issue with misogyny are those who belong to some extreme lunatic fringe.

• If women would behave in the particular way I deem acceptable, men would treat them decently. If they insist on behaving in any other way, men have every right to treat them however they choose.

I could go on, but I’m already depressed that it was so easy to compile that list.

Do not be depressed. Take heart that these debates really do make a difference. Society is changing, albeit way too slowly. The efforts of those making strong arguments are not in vain. The next generation will benefit from the struggles of this one. The old misogynists will not win. Look where we were a hundred years ago and where we will be a hundred years from now. And it changes because of people like those who have posted so eloquently in this thread.

[Beckdawrek]

The day of the straight white man, who has held his thumb over women, people of color, and people in reduced circumstance is drawing nigh. They are struggling like a fish on a hook, trying to get one last thrash in, in hopes of getting free. Guess what? It’s over. The dream is done. You cannot treat people like that, anymore. Go back to your skeevy basement and look at your dog-eared playboy mags, and leave real people alone.
SA, you are a jerk. The idiocy spewing from your mouth is vile.

[Ludovic]

@raventhief

If she really didn’t mind, she wouldn’t be trying to shut it down by pointing out the promise ring.

She could just say she can be around the Best Looking Boys.

[expectopatronum]

@Crafter_Man

So if two guys see a nice looking women, and one utters to the other, “Hey, check out that hot chick,” it is considered misogynistic? :dubious:

I wish I had a nickel every time I heard one of my daughters say, “He’s such a hot guy.”

The world has gone mad. How I reminisce about the pre-PC era…

The problem isn’t an overly PC era or liberal snowflakes that need safe spaces. It’s that when women speak up and say they find something degrading, men like you and many others in this thread would like to blame every fucking thing possible aside from the pervasive misogyny that, in 2018, is still very alive and well in our society. You all would rather rules lawyer to death a very mild moderator action, tell women they’re being too sensitive, that it’s a compliment, bemoan the current overly-PC era we’re living in, try to draw comparisons to degradation of men that doesn’t happen nearly to the degree that women experience. You would rather do all of that instead of think about your words and how a woman says it makes them feel. Let’s just go back to the 50s/60s era that Starving “for subservient women” Artist so often holds up as an ideal, where the womenfolk weren’t so uppity and just smiled, looked pretty and raised the kiddos without complaint. You’d rather do anything than be supportive of women’s feelings about these issues, and just mansplain it all away. It’s also extremely laughable that some of you seem to think women feeling this way is a new thing. It’s not. Our voices are just becoming louder, and many of the aging incels that populate this message board can’t fucking stand it.

Oh, and specifically to Starving Fuckwad: You seem to fancy yourself a gentleman because you offer to walk coworkers to their cars at night or hold doors open or whatever. You’re a real hero. Do you know what the fuck else a true gentleman does? He tries not to make women uncomfortable. He listens if a woman says she finds a certain term degrading. He doesn’t presume to tell a woman how she should feel, and accepts how she does feel and does his best not to cause her any kind of discomfort. You are not a gentleman, you’re a fucking piece of shit. Go fuck yourself. I would imagine it’s the only sex you ever have, so go nuts.

[wolfpup]

@HeweyLogan

This is no way a thread on moderator actions/beliefs board related to a question in ABTMB.

It is, but it isn’t.

Well, that’s fine. I might have something to say about that if someone were to translate it into English for me.

@HeweyLogan

To women, what part of ‘Hot Chick’ is offensive, the hot part or chick?

It’s like this:

@Czarcasm

Which part of being called a misogynist asshole is offensive to you, the misogynist part or asshole?

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@expectopatronum

The problem isn’t an overly PC era or liberal snowflakes that need safe spaces. It’s that when women speak up and say they find something degrading, men like you and many others in this thread would like to blame every fucking thing possible aside from the pervasive misogyny that, in 2018, is still very alive and well in our society. You all would rather rules lawyer to death a very mild moderator action, tell women they’re being too sensitive, that it’s a compliment, bemoan the current overly-PC era we’re living in, try to draw comparisons to degradation of men that doesn’t happen nearly to the degree that women experience. You would rather do all of that instead of think about your words and how a woman says it makes them feel.

Q. F. T.

This shit ain’t hard. If something you said hurts someone, even if you didn’t mean it, the right thing to do is to stop doing it. Not to piss and moan about some imaginary bogeyman or say that everyone offended is “brainwashed”.

[thirdname]

@Eonwe

It’s tough, isn’t it, to realize that women can be perpetuate the patriarchy just as well as men? And it’s tricky, as a man, to know how to respond to those moments. In general, you probably did right by not interrupting two strangers to try to police their overheard conversation.

Then why call it “patriarchy” if you’re talking about things that women do just as much as men? It seems your ideology holds that women are never responsible for their words or actions and everything they do or say that you don’t like is somehow the fault of men.

Men do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/misogyny = men’s fault
Women do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/“internalized misogyny” = also men’s fault

[Starving_Artist]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Q. F. T.

This shit ain’t hard. If something you said hurts someone, even if you didn’t mean it, the right thing to do is to stop doing it. Not to piss and moan about some imaginary bogeyman or say that everyone offended is “brainwashed”.

Well, it’s all in the approach.

If a woman were to overhear me say something she found hurtful, and she told me that she found it hurtful and asked me please to not say things like that, or at least not in her presence, I’d be very likely to apologize, to tell her I didn’t mean for it to come across like that, and then I’d try to be more careful in the future.

On the other hand, if she were to come stomping up to me, accuse me of being a “misogynist” and making demeaning and dehumanizing comments about women, and inform me that such language is never appropriate whether a woman is around to hear it or not, and that I should shut the fuck up and do what she says unless I want to go through life being a misogynistic asshole, I would likely respond in one of two ways:

1. Point out to her that her view was merely an opinion, and that whatever demeaning or dehumanizing inferences she drew from what I said were not facts but merely how she, in her high-handed liberal dudgeon, chose to interpret them. And then I’d point out that calling people names and insulting their motives isn’t the optimum way to get them to change their behavior.

2. Tell her to go pound sand.

@thirdname

Then why call it “patriarchy” if you’re talking about things that women do just as much as men? It seems your ideology holds that women are never responsible for their words or actions and everything they do or say that you don’t like is somehow the fault of men.

Men do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/misogyny = men’s fault
Women do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/“internalized misogyny” = also men’s fault

QFT.

I’d have more to say on this subject but work beckons.

[wonky]

@thirdname

Then why call it “patriarchy” if you’re talking about things that women do just as much as men? It seems your ideology holds that women are never responsible for their words or actions and everything they do or say that you don’t like is somehow the fault of men.

Men do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/misogyny = men’s fault
Women do/say something you don’t approve of = patriarchy/“internalized misogyny” = also men’s fault

“Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property.”

[Alvin_Karpis]

What are some non-degrading ways of referring to a person who would otherwise be called a hot chick?

[Beckdawrek]

@Starving_Artist

Well, it’s all in the approach.

If a woman were to overhear me say something she found hurtful, and she told me that she found it hurtful and asked me please to not say things like that, or at least not in her presence, I’d be very likely to apologize, to tell her I didn’t mean for it to come across like that, and then I’d try to be more careful in the future.

On the other hand, if she were to come stomping up to me, accuse me of being a “misogynist” and making demeaning and dehumanizing comments about women, and inform me that such language is never appropriate whether a woman is around to hear it or not, and that I should shut the fuck up and do what she says unless I want to go through life being a misogynistic asshole, I would likely respond in one of two ways:

1. Point out to her that her view was merely an opinion, and that whatever demeaning or dehumanizing inferences she drew from what I said were not facts but merely how she, in her high-handed liberal dudgeon, chose to interpret them. And then I’d point out that calling people names and insulting their motives isn’t the optimum way to get them to change their behavior.

2. Tell her to go pound sand.

QFT.

I’d have more to say on this subject but work beckons.

Why is the woman in your hypothetical responsible for your actions? Guess what? She’s not. You are responsible for you. If you can’t conduct yourself appropriately in the company of others you should stay home. If you cannot control what comes out of your mouth, maybe you should shut-up.

[susan]

@Alvin_Karpis

What are some non-degrading ways of referring to a person who would otherwise be called a hot chick?

“Doctor.”

[Sicks_Ate]

It might be interesting to create a list of “Women who bailed on The Dope” due to this crap.

[VinylTurnip]

@Starving_Artist

I’d have more to say on this subject but work beckons.

Those bowels aren’t going to move themselves! Hopefully.