I am new enough to posting that I am not sure how to include parts of others posts, sorry. When I said “that kind of personal comment is what I don’t like in these debates” it was in reference to Mr. Moto’s comment about not having enough eyes to roll about my initial post.
But, oh well. I hope the “sniping” as someone so accurately described it does not get any worse, or more personal. Any of the three would be such a better president, in my opinion, than any one of the Republican candidates…that I just don’t want to see any of them significantly weakened by making some stupid, shrill, petty remark to be regretted later.
I noticed the sniping started with Obama and Hillary was flawless in taking over the offensive and hammering Obama. Obama clearly was uncomfortable while Hillary was enjoying herself. It appears to me she’s found a weak spot in him that she will not resist to exploit for the rest of the campaign.
She knows he’s got South Carolina wrapped up and I think she’s performing for Super Tuesday.
This is the most exciting debate I’ve ever witnessed.
Nor should she. These are love taps compared to what the GOP usually puts out during a presidential race.
Democratic and independent voters need to know if Obama can handle them.
Yeah, the GOP will lie about Obama, so we need Hillary to do so to see if he can handle it.
I’d be completely unsurprised if the Clinton campaign has hit on Obama’s “flip-flopper”- the present votes. It’s one of those things where explaining it, no matter your guilt or innocence, makes you sound bad. If he wins the general, that will dog him.
“You have to understand, in the Illinois state senate…”
“I voted for the 87 billion…”
The Swiftboat brigade did a good job on Kerry in 2004. Does anyone seriously believe that they’ve vanished from the political landscape?
Yes, Obama once bought some land at slightly above market value. What a scandal. It makes me happy that your side is forced to such desperate scrabbling and scratching to try to put a mark on Obama. Barack is going to win in a walk if that’s the best you can do.
Yes they have, unless Kerry runs again. They were a very specific group of people going after a specific person for specific reasons. They aren’t the Republican’s hit squad.
Hillary won’t get the chance to.
Indeed. I think the term is “useful idiots”. It appears that McCain has his own fanclub of such people, I am sure that a set would emerge for Obama. One already exists for Hillary- they get opinion leader faxes.
The Swiftboaters were definitely put together for political reason. That was not just some concerned group of citizens who rose organically out of the ground. They were a GOP hit squad. The ringleader was originally hired by Nixon specifically to try to discredit Kerry.
Those particular slimeballs might be retired now, but they were a target specific group. This time the GOP will probably hire a bunch of former associates from Barack Obama’s arrant youth to testify that he was Honolulu’s leading drug lord who also regularly attended terrorist meetings at the local Mosque.
HRC is clearly looking past her expected SC loss and playing to Super Tuesday but I think that tactically it may be a bad move. Edwards will get a bump from this … it will come entirely out of HRC’s column and will still leave him in third. Not enough so that he’ll win over 15% anywhere else. He may not quit but he’ll leave SC a complete nonfactor. Still he’ll have helped HRC look weaker than she is. Obama’s SC victory will become large enough to be perceived as significant momentum. If I’m guessing right Richardson will then endorse Obama right after the SC primary and spend the week before Super Tuesday on Spanish language media with a focus on California. Gloria Molina, highly influential in California, will follow Richardson along. Richardson will also take the role in the mainstream Anglo media of calling the Clintons to task when they distort the truth. This coming from someone out of their previous White House will get much media buzz. Kerry may even join in in ads comparing the Clintons’ tactics to Swiftboating.
A narrow Obama win in SC, after a narrow loss in Nevada would’ve left him hoping to get enough delegates to stay neck and neck even if he lost more states. A big win, especially if coupled with my fantasies, may give him a decisive win on Super Tuesday.
Bottom line - I think that lots of the Clinton establishment support comes not from great love of them but from fear of their machine. Gore had no love lost after working with them and I’m getting the sense that Richardson didn’t either. Bill has made this clear that HRC isn’t running for President but that the Clintons are running to recapture the Presidency for their professional partnership. I do not think that will sell well even with those who liked Bill an awful lot.
I sincerely hope and pray you are right. But why would Richardson wait until after Saturday? What keeps him from doing this now?
I can’t watch these debates without bias, and in my biased view Hillary was shrill and obnoxious. Edwards came off the best and may well peel off some white voters from Hillary. A second place Edwards finish would be out of the question but I think he will cut into Hillary’s vote a bit. Obama needs do counter the “present” vote issue. His answer might be correct, but voters will take the sound bite over the subtle nuance every time. If I was him, I’d research the voting history of the Illinois legislature and count the number of times each legislator voted “present”. If it turns out he’s typical, or better yet below average on such votes, that needs to be brought forward.
That just reeks on so many levels. I think it is an insult to blacks to imply that the way to connect with them is through racial humor, and that therefore, they are insular and can connect only with one another. Also, it smacks of a bigot’s worldview, in which black folk can’t understand the real issues, but can be mollified by another funny black fellow. It is segregationist at its foundation, where people are excluded, based on race, from connecting with other people. It was a shameful remark, and if indeed it is perceived as something that Obama could get away with simply because he is black, then that perception could just as easily belong to a white separatist as a white leftist. It is my fervent hope, as a minority myself, that a good number of blacks disgree with you.
I think you’re being a bit harsh. It was a funny line. How in the heck was he supposed to answer such a question?
Lib- It was a stupid question that deserved a flippant answer. Yet the best jokes have an underlaying discomfort or two that they exploit. This time Obama was able to exploit those discomforts in way that both showed explicitly that the premise that Bill Clinton is (as Andrew Young recently stated, “as Black as Obama is”) is an idiocy while making fun of stereotypes and those who hold them in a way that only a member of the stereotyped group can. To make those serious points in a way that makes everyone smile? Brilliant is right.
Bob, two reasons for the delay in this fantasy future I have:
First endorsing Obama is a big risk for Richardson. He very likely could have the job under Clinton too and certainly puts himself out of any HRC White House role for maybe eight years if he endorses Obama and he loses. He wants to see that Obama can pull off SC well enough to have that perceived momentum going into Feb 5 before he places such a big bet.
Two is that the Obama camp has little to gain from a Richardson endorsement before then. But going into Feb 5 it will play big and push the media hype of momentum building up to a frenzy while also neutralizing some of HRC’s advantage among Latino voters in delegate rich California.
I agree. That struck me as a brilliant response to a stupid, stupid question.
…Hillary is on the Republican side? I think it’s just terrifying to see the claws come out on the Democratic side, because apologists can’t use the Republican boogey-man “He did it first!” excuse as a scapegoat anymore (although some, like Squink and Richard Parker, are trying, bless their hearts).
As for Obama’s dance quote, have you seen the man dance? I’m not even sure he’s a brother.
Not true, although it is nice to be to be indicted by promoters of the sweetness and light campaign as “insufficiently sweet and light.” It makes me feel less like some hot house flower.
Think that all you want to, but I’m black and I wasn’t insulted by his response (and call me crazy, but none of the black folks in the audience giving him applause looked insulted either). What’s insulting was the question in the first place. If I have to hear about Bill Clinton being black one more time, I think I will scream. I think Obama handled that question with a lot of tact and style.
Yeah, because we all know the black folks were just sitting there silent when he and the other senators talked about healthcare reform, poverty, education, and the war. The only time they clapped is when Obama made that joke. Good observation, Liberal.