[QUOTE=you with the face]
Think that all you want to, but I’m black and I wasn’t insulted by his response (and call me crazy, but none of the black folks in the audience giving him applause looked insulted either)
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but you have no right to criticize a native American for feeling insulted. You don’t know what its like to be native American. Have you ever seen them dance?
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
Yes, but you have no right to criticize a native American for feeling insulted. You don’t know what its like to be native American. Have you ever seen them dance?
[/QUOTE]
Dammit, Dutchman! I’m supposed to dislike you intensely for your right-wing political stand. How am I supposed to maintain that when you post things like this?!
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
You don’t know what its like to be native American. Have you ever seen them dance?
[/QUOTE]
No, but it’s been raining a lot so I’ll draw my own conclusions.
It was a nice response by Obama on a lot of levels. It will do him good, too, because there were many moments when he looked a bit lost- if the media latches to this and the confrontations I think on measure he comes out ahead.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The Swiftboaters were definitely put together for political reason. That was not just some concerned group of citizens who rose organically out of the ground. They were a GOP hit squad. The ringleader was originally hired by Nixon specifically to try to discredit Kerry.
[/QUOTE]
And here I thought Nixon died in 1994.
Regards,
Shodan
[QUOTE=Shodan]
And here I thought Nixon died in 1994.
[/QUOTE]
Nixon first recruited John O’Neill to attack John Kerry in the 70’s.
[QUOTE=Crotalus]
I agree. That struck me as a brilliant response to a stupid, stupid question.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I don’t know if it was “brilliant” but it was as good an answer as any to a pretty stupid question. Given that he had to answer off the cuff, I’d say he did damn well.
I was a little disappointed with Obama, overall, even though I think he did win the debate (if there is such a thing). I just think he could have done better than he did. There were a few times when he was way too analytical and didn’t give a concrete enough answer to the question. For example, when Wolf asked how much money a typical SC person would receive under each candidate’s economic stimulus package, he never really did give a specific answer even though Wolf tried to drag it out of him. Now, there’s nothing wrong with being analytical, but you need to get back to concrete reality at some point.
Reading the paper this AM, I see that Hillary has about a 10 pt lead over Obama out here in CA. He’s got some serious work to do, but fortunately there are quite a few undecideds left and the Democratic primary is an open one-- I think Obama holds more appeal to independents than Hillary does.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Yeah. I don’t know if it was “brilliant” but it was as good an answer as any to a pretty stupid question. Given that he had to answer off the cuff, I’d say he did damn well.
[/QUOTE]
It was interesting to watch the reaction from Edwards and Clinton when he said it. They both looked briefly shocked, and looked at the audience to see how they would react, as if to wonder, “Is this funny, or is it an insult?”
[QUOTE=you with the face]
What’s insulting was the question in the first place. If I have to hear about Bill Clinton being black one more time, I think I will scream.
[/quote]
Well, I agree with you there.
I think so too after looking back at the DVR. It went down with considerably more subtlety than the one-line shot as you wrote it.
Your sarcasm, I think, betrays the point you made earlier. I think all three candidates were connecting with the audience, including (and maybe especially) Edwards.
I did not know, incidentally, that you are black. I apologize for offending you. But there is so much frivolous bigotry and hate in the form of just-joking-around that it struck a nerve with me. From my point of view, there are two kinds of racism: (1) singling someone out, on account of their race; and (2) failing to single someone out, on account of their race. I don’t think anyone should have license to play the race card just because they’re a certain race. I think an appropriate response to the stupid question would have been, “I think that’s a stupid question.” It might also have gotten applause.
A pleasant surprise from the evening for me was Obama proclaiming that he is a “proud Christian”, and not because I’m all rah-rah over Christianity, but because it was a perfectly clear, concise, and cogent way for him to put to rest the right-wing smear campaign aimed at painting him as some sort of militant Muslim. That whole campaign is sad because the vast majority of Muslims are in no way militant to start with, but the smear-mongers know that people’s perceptions are different from that. Obama took the opportunity not only to speak up for himself, but to reach out to the faithful. I thought it was the highlight of his participation.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Obama took the opportunity not only to speak up for himself, but to reach out to the faithful.
[/QUOTE]
Which ones? “I’m a Christian”, as we have discussed before, is a content free declaration.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
Yes they have, unless Kerry runs again. They were a very specific group of people going after a specific person for specific reasons. They aren’t the Republican’s hit squad.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach]
…Hillary is on the Republican side? I think it’s just terrifying to see the claws come out on the Democratic side, because apologists can’t use the Republican boogey-man “He did it first!” excuse as a scapegoat anymore (although some, like Squink and Richard Parker, are trying, bless their hearts).
[/QUOTE]
Eh…wha? I’m trying to “use the Republican boogey-man ‘He did it first!’ excuse as a scapegoat”? I honestly have no idea what that means. Little help?
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
'Fraid they are, and they’re back.
[/QUOTE]
As is often the case, your cite (without a quote) does not support your assertion.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Your sarcasm, I think, betrays the point you made earlier. I think all three candidates were connecting with the audience, including (and maybe especially) Edwards.
[/QUOTE]
I never said the others did not connect with the audience, so that’s a weak strawman. Of course they did, otherwise they would have recieved a chilly reception throughout the whole debate. Obama, however, with comedic timing, showed that he was able to relate to his audience in a certain kind of way that the others (Bill, in particular) can’t, no matter how well they play the sax. And the reason why this was brilliant is because it was a subtle, almost encryptic way of saying that Bill has nothing on him in terms of black authenticity (“afterall, can Bill say this?”)…which addresses the meat of that stupid question.
Now I don’t know if he consciously meant to communicate that or if he was just trying to make a simple funny, but he did it just the same.
*The pause he took right before saying “a brother” in combination with his seemingly serious delivery made the moment what it was.
Was it a mostly African-American audience? I know that half the Democratic voters in SC are Black, and this debate was sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus. That might have added an extra dimension to the context of Obama’s remark.
Did anyone notice Hilary’s body language? She spent most of the time, when not talking, rotated 90 degrees toward Obama, leaning away from her podium like she wanted to snatch the center of the stage from him. Oh, and if I hear about Edwards’ parents one more time, I’m going to puke. Maybe he a Giuliani can get in a debate about what is more important: having parents who worked in the mills or being mayor of NYC during 9/11.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Oh, and if I hear about Edwards’ parents one more time, I’m going to puke. Maybe he a Giuliani can get in a debate about what is more important: having parents who worked in the mills or being mayor of NYC during 9/11.
[/QUOTE]
If we’re talking about humble beginnings, Giuliani probably has Edwards beat. Far as I know, the senior Edwards never did any jail time.
But Edwards really can just show us all of his one dimension.
As for Giuliani, I think I’m like a lot of people - I’m disappointed in him. He’s a very multidimensional guy, as I alluded to just a bit here. And yet he’s running a campaign based on just one event.
I’ve seen just glimpses of other things like his tax record and other things, but it isn’t enough. I started out with a lot of hopes and expectations of him, too.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
I never said the others did not connect with the audience, so that’s a weak strawman. Of course they did, otherwise they would have recieved a chilly reception throughout the whole debate. Obama, however, with comedic timing, showed that he was able to relate to his audience in a certain kind of way that the others (Bill, in particular) can’t, no matter how well they play the sax. And the reason why this was brilliant is because it was a subtle, almost encryptic way of saying that Bill has nothing on him in terms of black authenticity (“afterall, can Bill say this?”)…which addresses the meat of that stupid question.
Now I don’t know if he consciously meant to communicate that or if he was just trying to make a simple funny, but he did it just the same.
*The pause he took right before saying “a brother” in combination with his seemingly serious delivery made the moment what it was.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I don’t disagree with any of that. And maybe you aren’t saying this at all, but the notion that I disagree with is that he connected in some special way with blacks that did not connect with whites or others. In fact, the Chris Rock sort of racial jokes seem to entertain whites to no end, so I’d say that Obama connected with everyone equally well (or poorly in some cases).
Did Obama or Edwards get any “boos” from the audience? I don’t remember any, but I can distinctly remember 2 or 3 times, at least, that Hillary got booed. It was nice to see the look on her face when the audience let her have it.
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
But Edwards really can just show us all of his one dimension.
[/QUOTE]
That may be, but it is an important dimension to some democrats. King’s Son Urges Edwards To Press On.
So, I urge you: keep going. Ignore the pundits, who think this is a horserace, not a fight for justice. My dad was a fighter. As a friend and a believer in my father’s words that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, I say to you: keep going. Keep fighting. My father would be proud.
Sincerely,
Martin L. King, III
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Did Obama or Edwards get any “boos” from the audience? I don’t remember any, but I can distinctly remember 2 or 3 times, at least, that Hillary got booed. It was nice to see the look on her face when the audience let her have it.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t see the entire first part. Why did they boo her?