Your arguments are not incorrect, mks, but they don’t address the problem here, which is students using cellphones in class disruptively and immorally (for cheating, etc.). Kids are supposed to be in school and in class to learn, first and foremost. Cellphones are getting in the way of that (the kid texting isn’t paying attention, and the other kids’ attention gets disrupted every time a cellphone rings or beeps or whatever).
Let’s add up the number of people here who want to ban phones because drug dealers use them. Ok, good. Now add up the number of people who gave many other reasons and didn’t mention drugs once. Great. Now take that lightning bolt and may I suggest a more appropriate place for it?
Yeah…that’s why…uhh…that’s why guns are banned from schools. Am I missing a step in the argument here?
Um, excuse me, but I do need to use my cell when I’m on the bus-because said bus does not go all the way to my area, but quite a ways away, I need to let my ride know when to pick me when I’m at a certain point. If I’m discreet, and don’t shout into it, what’s the harm? Likewise, in cars, if you’re not driving, but a passenger, why is that so wrong?
GLWasteful, that sounds like the best solution to me-there’s got to be a middle ground.
It may be true that cell phones themselves are not the problem, it is students not possessing the decorum to know when to use and not use them, but isn’t this at the root of all rule-making? The rule is not “Don’t shoot people at school,” it’s “Don’t bring guns to school.” While most, if not all, rules certainly have exceptions, it is easier to state a rule as a clear-cut statement. I find it ridiculous that a school would discipline a child for using their phone in a legitimate emergency. But people should understand that when a kid takes out their phone in the middle of a lesson to call home because in four or five hours they need a ride, this isn’t an emergency; it’s the kid being a jackass.
We allow our students to bring phones and keep it on their person but it must not be in use and it must not be displayed in the building until after 4:00pm. A year or two ago they were getting to bogged down with trying to decide what actions should accompany what infractions, so they came out with a cut-and-dry rule that if they break the rule, it is an automatic one-day suspension. In certain situations I can see this is maybe extreme, but I am happy to have a clearly-defined rule to enforce.
I am very surprised to hear that some schools will not deliver messages or allow students to use the phone. Here we allow students to use the office phones during lunch or breaks and after school. And while we only pull students out of class for a phone call in an emergency (e.g. death or illness), we do deliver notes of the “Go home on the bus,” “Pick your sister up at the sitter’s,” “Your lunch money is in the office,” varieties to them.
As others have pointed out, you make an incredibly lame and asinine argument. I, for one, would hope that you learned better in a public school, but pissed away any knowledge imparted.
As opposed to, y’know, what people have been arguing against which is students chatting with friends/parents/significant others/dealers during class. Or, to simplify it: the irresponible use of tools and technology.
Jelymag: It sounds like your district has somewhat similar policies to ours. Of course, cracking down on the little nippers with an automatic suspension just reeks of persecution. Why oh why do you hate your students?
Uh, it may be just me, or cellphone use has changed drastically since I graduated high school in 2004, but how large are the class sizes that instructors can’t pinpoint who is using a cellphone? My classes had, on average, 20 students. In five rows of four students, who you are all looking at as you lecture, how do you miss the one who seems to be holding a ringing object, or looking down at the phone while texting with one hand? It was never hard for my teachers to see who had the cellphone out. And when one rang, everyone automatically turned to see where it came from. I mean, come on, how can you miss someone pulling out a device to snap a picture of the paper on their desk in a test?
Man, me and my friends must be weird, we were still passing paper notes 3 years ago. I understand this can be a problem in 100 person lecture theatres, but we aren’t talking college here.
I appreciate your concern for my well-being. Rest assured that if my phone or laptop or ipod or car or identity or any of a myriad of other things get stolen, I won’t bother you about it. I am somewhat familiar with the big, bad, world out there. My opinions don’t come from naivete but from a (sometimes strained) cheery hopefulness. Also rest assured that my cell phone will remain a separate part of me.
Hippy Hollow, my school is from 7th to 12th grade and we have about 110 students. My class has 20 students and we are the second largest class in the school. I apologize if I made you go to an extreme because that was not my intent.
Believe it or not, I would rather cell phones not ring in class either. I just get the feeling that that’s the way things are headed so I might as well get used to it. Lord knows I won’t be able to get my future coworkers to maintain a respectful silence while I deal with a difficult situation or what have you. I might as well get practiced at tuning out distractions.
This may be the way things are going in the outside world, but surely things like mobiles ringing is the modern day equivalent to talking when the teacher is talking. It is a distraction, it interfers with learning; why do I have to tolerate it in my classroom? Students need to learn what behaviour is appropriate to the situation that they are in.
Oh, I’m sounding so like a teacher today and I’m meant to be on holiday. :smack:
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I think that if a student is sending someone pornographic material, they will get it to them whether they have a phone or not. You might as well ban disposable cameras too because who knows, I may have the urge to photograph myself as I take a shit and post it on the wall :rolleyes:
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I have tried to photograph a paper during class (not for cheating purposes; we had an information packet which we were studying in class and my friend, who was absent from school that day, wanted to know what he had to know by the next day so I tried to photograph the cover so he could find the correct one out of our myriad of redundant packets) and speaking from experience, it is all but impossible to photograph it discreetly. I ended up giving up and trying to describe it via text. Which brings me to…
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Those who want to cheat, will. Those don’t, won’t. It’s as simple as that. A blanket ban over cell phones doesn’t eliminate the problem; it only takes away one option from the cheaters. You may as well spend the last half hour of class making every student empty their backpacks and check all of their papers for torn-out corners. You should also look at the students as they take their tests to see if anyone has a question instead of surfing the internet.
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Can friends not call in fake emergencies on normal phones? One of my friends called himself in sick a few days ago. Somehow, his use of his house phone did not prevent him from being excused from school that day.
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In middle school, I can completely see theft being a problem. However, in High School, I have yet to hear of a single person having their phone stolen. A phone is an object that people tend to hold on to. I don’t see how it would get stolen. And if it is, tough luck. Keep it on your person at all times.
1010011010, you bring up a point that I have thought of myself countless times. I take AP classes and I take regular level classes, so I am in contact with people from all over the intelligence and attentiveness spectrums. Never, Ever, EVER in my entire life have I seen anyone getting distracted from someone else sending a text message. If they do it discreetly, nobody sees the screen, and if there is any background noise what so ever, the buttons are inaudible. What does distract and derail the whole class is when the teacher notices an otherwise inconspicuous texter and launches on a tirade about the evils of cell phones and their disruptiveness to the class. It makes me chuckle to myself every time when they can’t remember where they left off the lesson.
Simply speaking, those who want to pay attention will, and those who don’t will find something to distract themselves with. It has nothing to do with attention span. A silent texter distracts nobody. My freshman and sophomore years of high school, I texted almost incessantly and was never caught simply because I kept my phone on silent (not vibrate) and checked for messages manually, and I texted discreetly. Somehow, my prolific texting (something around 40 messages per school day) never seemed to impede my A average.
Are people speaking on cell phones during class distracting? Of course, and any idiot would see that unless it is a real emergency, the phone should be taken away. Ditto for the phone going off or playing music in class. But a phone, silently and discretely used, distracts nobody. I don’t see why I should be banned from using it in such a manner; what I chose to do with my classtime is my own choice, as long as it does not distract anyone else. And as for cell phone use during resources, “free periods,” and lunches, a ban seems completely assinine. Anybody who can find one GOOD reason for the ban of phones during lunch (especially outside of the school building) gets a pat on the back.
- A Personal Narrative and General Observation on the Usage of Cell Phones in School, by Danja
I don’t think the problem is sending pornographic material so much as tacking photos of other students while they’re changing or showering. It’s a little difficult to be discrete when taking a photo of someone with a disposible camera but it’s easy to do so with a phone. “Taking photos, me? No, I was just checking my messages.”
Not that I think a blanket ban on cell phones is a good idea. This strikes me as a legitmate concern though.
Marc
See my earlier posting where I mentioned the size of my classes is 39. They’re not 40 because that’s not permitted in public schools. 39 students sitting in eight rows is a lot of people.
Not everyone’s silly enough to have the sound on their phone turned on while they’re using it in class or silly enough to have the phone on top of the desk. Add to the usual texting the issue of pictures and games and you’ll see it’s not as cut and dried as you make it seem.
Evidently, we’re not talking about English class either. I would think that the smaller the class size, the more disruptive a cell phone sounding would be.
Actually, you should be using classtime to learn. If the teacher is making the effort to be there and teach( payed, albeit, but they’re still there doing a job), the proper thing to do is for students to pay attention to what the teacher is trying to teach them. That’s probably my ancient sensibilities showing, though.
And the people who use the SDMB during working hours should be working instead, right? After all, they are getting paid. Nobody seems to reprimand them from not concentrating 100% on their job. And we students are forced to sit in hot stuffy classrooms and listen to the same boring drone. Our pay is the knowlege we take into the future. How much of a “paycheck” we earn is up to us. If I chose to do something else, as long as I don’t distract anyone else, why should I be stopped?
Christ, this thread makes me feel so old. The only equivalent I can relate to is the advent of calculators when I was in school. At first you couldn’t have calculators in school. Then you could use them in certain situations. Finally, it was okay to have calculators generally, unless a test was being taken, or something.
Big difference, though. Calculators have a role essential in the educational process. Camera phones and texting? Not so much. Look, the idea of doing stuff besides paying attention is old as the hills, and the rules still apply. If you’re smart enough, slick enough, and non-distracting enough, have at it. But you are taking a risk, and need to be prepared to pay the consequences if you’re caught.
As a teacher I am obligated to put the smack down on you if you are passing notes or chatting away merrily on the phone during class. For one, it is incredibly distracting in the educational process. It is also incredibly disrespectful to other students and the teacher. But I’m not there to bust kids for passing notes, I’m there to teach. So if you can do it in a non-discrete way - and that means not just to me, but to your classmates - I don’t particularly care if you pass notes. Unless you’re passing notes to a kid who is struggling to understand a concept and you are distracting him/her. Then I’m pissed at you for being such an arrogant ass. Other people have the right to learn free from distraction.
I would sometimes make a scene when I caught a student not following rules. Why? Because part of classroom management is letting you, the student, know that I know what’s going on. I’ve been in classrooms where students were harassed and hit - and the teacher was clueless as to what was happening. However, the occasional reminder that yes, I can see you in the back row poking your neighbor with a ruler, serves to keep all parties alert to the fact that I have no problem calling you out for disrupting class… so maybe you won’t bother testing my patience. It also might apply some peer pressure, as your compadres are probably a little annoyed that your goofing off interrupted the lesson and their learning. Nothing is greater for a teacher than when the students shoot the evil eye to a peer who has been distracting them from learning.
Oh, and also, teachers are people too, and sometimes lose it.
I have to say I disagree with Danja’s thoughts on cheating. Most cheaters are not creative. If they were, I might actually be impressed. If the most readily available tools are not at hand, some people just give up and decide to study/memorize/take the F. The goal is not to eliminate cheating, but to make it as inconvenient as possible. Kind of like speed bumps in the road. They don’t stop the avowed speeders from speeding, but the majority of folks slow down.
Bottom line: I’ve said that there are plenty of logical reasons why HS students should be allowed the privilege of having a phone at school (not that I didn’t say need). If a phone is out or in use during instructional time, it should be confiscated and returned once a parent comes to pick it up. Use it before school or at lunch. Again, if you’re a clever clogs and you want to gamble by texting during class, go for it… just don’t cry to me when it gets taken from you. Oh, and no instructional time is spent looking for lost phones or tracking down stolen phones. That’s the risk you take bringing a phone to school.
Perhaps a better question is, “why should you be allowed to continue?” You can text, converse, photograph, whatever as much as you like, as long as it is not done in class. Hey, if you’re at the local student hangout or in the park or at a friend’s, why should you be stopped indeed? But if you’re paying attention to your phone in class, then regardless of how distracting you claim it isn’t, you’re not paying attention to the instructor who is teaching the class. That’s insulting to the instructor and to your fellow students–you obviously feel that what the instructor has to say and what the students are contributing to the class is less important than whatever is being communicated over your phone.
Anyway, you have established that you have no intention of paying attention to the instructor if your phone demands your attention. So why are you there at all? Why not just give up on school and pay attention to your phone? There are no doubt plenty of jobs out there for someone like you. Here, let’s practice your future career dialog: “Hi, welcome to Fatso Burger. Can I take your order?” “Today’s Tuesday, so our Fatso Plus is on special.” “Do you want fries with that?” Here’s a hint, kid: if you’re on my clock, then you’re doing what I tell you while you are on my clock. You wanna earn a living between hours X and Y? Then get to work. You wanna text your friends between hours X and Y and expect me to pay you for it? Here’s your severance and your pink slip. You can’t have it both ways; today’s school is just preparing you for what you’ll encounter from an employer. In a lot nicer way.
Get your priorities straight right now. Get an education while it is offered to you, and use your oh-so-wonderful communication technology outside of class hours.
Featherlou, it’s my ancient sensibilities acting up too. I’ll buy you a glass of Geritol someday, should our walkers and wheelchairs cross paths again.
In this long and involved thread, I have not heard anyone give a good reason for a kid to have a cellphone in class.
Period. There is no good reason for a kid to have a cellphone in class.
I don’t mean turned off, on silent or vibrate, there is no reason, fucking period.
A family emergency? The parent calls the school, student is notified.
Mom wants to change plans for driving to soccer practice? Tough shit.
Kid wants to change plans? Tough shit, you are in class. The world won’t end.
Aw, you just have to text somebody? Tough shit.
Crazed killers shooting up the skool? Tough shit, doesn’t happen often enough to warrant consideration.
But I MUST be able to get a hold of my snotty entitled offspring whenever I damn well please. Tough shit, and Fuck off, you snotty entitled excuse for a parent.
I will never be convinced a kid needs a phone in class. Cellphones, at least in the US, have barely been that common for less than ten fucking years. And don’t tell me “Well, I’ve had one for fifteen years, whatever”, you know damn well what I mean.
Convenient, of course. Essential in a classroom? Hell no. The posts by the teachers here flat blow away any argument that can be made.
Technology is a great thing, and I envy you younger people for the all the cool stuff you have grown up with. But turn the fucking phone off and learn something.
And get off my fucking lawn, and bring back that pink flamingo you stole.
Damn, I’ll take a shot of geritol also…sigh
People are able to text discreetly but it doesn’t mean that I haven’t noticed that it is happening and then I have to either ignore it or do my job and reinforce school rules. Either way it interupts my train of thought.
It is up to the individual whether they concentrate in lessons or not, but try telling that to the student’s parents when they do not get the A grade they are expecting; the responsibility for their learning suddenly becomes my responsibilty.
See, that’s what is fucked up with education these days. It doesn’t just interrupt you, it interrupts learning, and then you get bitched at by the clueless parents.
The same parents who expect teachers to be parents. :rolleyes:
Damn, I think teachers should make a million a year. Keep up the good fight!
I absolutely and totally agree with you. What’s even more interesting is that no one has tried to give one*, yet we’re still talking, for some reason.
The OP wasn’t about cellphones in class, it was about cell phones in school.
My son and I are quite happy that he can keep his phone, turned off, in his locker all day so that he can retrieve any messages or call home after school.
The OP’s principal’s policy would make that impossible.
Really, I don’t think anyone’s arguing that they need them in class, as long as the school has a reasonable policy and procedure for getting them a message and allowing them to contact home in an emergency.
Big strawman. Huge flaming strawman.
*as long as the school has a reasonable policy and procedure for getting them a message and allowing them to contact home in an emergency.