But inceldom is just not succeeding at dating and being celibate despite trying. That’s the exact definition of the words “involuntarily celibate”.
Your definition can most easily be proven wrong by the fact that there are people who claim to be “female incels”: https://www.reddit.com/r/Trufemcels/
So how can say for example misogyny be true of all incels? Do you presume “femcels” hate women too?
Either way, at this point you’re just arguing semantics which is not really interesting to me. I don’t really care what particular definition people apply to the word “incel”. I think it means involuntarily celibate. I watched a recent BBC documentary on incels and 2/3 of the guys featured were nothing like you described. I am not big on making assumptions about massive groups of people or lumping everyone together that shares a condition into one category and assuming I know everything about every person within that group. To me that just sounds like you want a bogeyman to rail against rather than that you’re actually trying to understand what’s happening in the world.
I am also not interested in the petty business of culture wars.
I’m interested in the understanding the nature of the world and humanity. So I am interested in the points that were raised and summarized in that page.
Even if everything you say about incels is true and every single man who has ever been incel is a rapist/monster/murderer/child-eater/goblin/demon, it wouldn’t change whether or not the science says those things, would it?
So while you’re free to talk about whatever you want of course, the actual science and implications were more what I was interested in discussing.
Yes, but trust me, not getting lucky in 2019, with video of any type of girl doing any type of porn you can think of accessible in seconds, is light years better than the 1970’s analog with only lingerie catalogs, fully clothed game show models and the occasional Playboy at your disposal.
I didn’t even see it from an incel forum. I wouldn’t want to spend time on one of those forums because I’m sure they’d be depressing as hell. I saw it from another subreddit post which has now been deleted.
In your amateur, uninvested, workaday research into the question when you weren’t pursuing other interests that you were totally like, take-it-or-leave-it about, did you happen to come up with any information about who those killers were, and who they killed, and why?
Did you see anything about how the incel community at large reacted to those killings, and what they have to say about the killers now?
Hey guess what? Names the groups give themselves usually sound far more innocuous than their beliefs would seem. I’m all for men having rights, but fuck no, I would never join MRA. I’m also for life, but no way am I a pro-lifer. Yes, incell, the word, means involuntary celibate. But the group itself is deeper and far more toxic than that.
So now, ok, you want to talk about the science. What about it?
Edit, I thought of another one. I’m a person who absolutely is for the ethical treatment of animals. But fuck PETA.
And the exact defintion of “pro-life” is “opposes the death penalty for adults too.” The label is a lie - or at least tells nowhere near all of the story.
And nobody can stop you from hewing to wrongness.
Incels have this thing called “looksmaxing”, which is where the misguided fuckers think that if they alter their appearance in the specific correct way it will turn their faces into hypnosis devices which will force women to fuck them. That women aren’t yet forced to fuck them is not proof that looksmaxing is the stupidest thing since the square wheel; it is instead proof that they haven’t looksmaxed hard enough.
As noted, they’re not reading their cites correctly; they’re instead reading their cites through the lens of “can I use this cite to support my retarded notion that women are as shallow as puddles and care about nothing, nothing but looks, status, and money?” This means that the implications of the cites are, nay, must be either, “god, incels don’t understand their own cites” or “god, this so-called science is shit!”
Because proper science properly understood doesn’t lead to obviously false conclusions, such as their belief that only super-attractive men can get the attention of women.
The only ones I know about are Elliot Rodger who killed his roommates and I think two women and Alek Minassian who drove the bus into a crowd. I think Elliot Rodger committed his crime before there was even the word “incel” - I remember seeing he posted on bodybuilding.com. Alek Minassian supposedly made a post about 4chan and some incel memes. I read he was very mentally ill and used to make animal sounds while walking down the hallway at school.
Honestly murderers are not something I spend time reading/thinking/talking about because it’s depressing and disturbing. I don’t read about what John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy did either. I don’t like true crime subjects in general.
Fine. Let’s take the scientific approach. What’s more likely?:
a) all the women in the world had a meeting and decided that there will be a certain group of men that they will not fuck under any circumstances.
-or-
b) there is a certain group of men with serious character flaws that simply are not desirable to the overwhelming majority of women.
It’s really weird how women do not like to date men who are angry, bitter, self absorbed and generally dislike women except as a place to put their penis.
I guess we’ll never know exactly why women feel this way. Total mystery.
The moon landing hoaxers scientifically know more about 99% of space flight than I do. It’s just a matter of whether they can win society over. So far they have a tough uphill slog.
Unfortunately, I have no grounds to comment because I do not have Ph. D in astrophysics. I guess we’ll never know if men landed on the moon.
As a point of reference for the OP, who is new around here.
We tend to get a lot of this shit where people have found something they like/find interesting and then they come here and do a basic dump;
a> Read these 42 articles with cites and then you can discuss this with me.
b> Watch these 87 youtube videos and then let’s discuss.
We’ve seen it too many times and no, we’re not interested in doing people’s homework for them or watching a bunch of videos to see what the OP is on about. If that’s a problem for you (and it seems to be for most of these types), tough shit. You’re asking a bunch of total strangers from all walks of life to spend hours looking at something they may not be interested in before they can talk to you and you’re not giving us an actual discussion, you’re telling us to do homework first before you’re willing to discuss it.
If someone asked us to watch a bunch of videos on any random subject, from earthworms to nuclear physics, with zero initial arguments or information, they are, every damned time, going to get the same “oh go fuck yourself” response from people here. Ain’t no one got time for that shit.
A better approach is to talk specifics and bring cites. To lay out your argument, your points FIRST and then invite discussion.
Eventually, you’ll notice that a lot of “Hey, watch this video <link> and discuss!” posts get closed or even cornfielded IMMEDIATELY.
If you want a better response, then do better with your initial post.
and that video was recorded while he was on his way to a sorority house to shoot the women there. But I just stumbled on that right now! And then weirdly enough, it turns out that
Crazy. Who knows – if I looked, maybe there would be a fuckton of other stuff out there that I didn’t even know about before right now, just like you didn’t. Maybe like a lot, enough that later I’ll be like hey it’s wild that I didn’t know anything about this if I knew who incels were.
I’ve just changed my opinion on incels. They seem like jerks! You too, right? Just two not-at-all-incel guys who don’t defend them on the internet now that we know how fucked up they are, that’s you and me!
Women are forced to have sex with men they don’t want.
Men go completely without sex or companionship.
#2 is not possible. It does seem correct that enforced monogamy via religion with “no sex before marriage” and enforcing marriage as an institution would have helped level the playing field for men at women’s disadvantage in the past, but I see no way to force the world back into that mold and I can’t say it would be good even if you could.
#3 does not seem like a good option. I think men are very sexually driven and if you have a whole 28%+ of young men who are sexless it’s going to likely lead to more problems and crime in the long run as some of the crazier ones might explode.
#1 seems like the only viable solution and I think sex dolls will eventually need to fill that void. The technology though might take another 20-30 years to become useful so until then I think it’s going to get uglier out there.
So what about the “femcels” then? Do they do the same things? I’m sorry but I have a hard time believing that every incel guy (or girl) worships Elliot Rodger.
Lots of humans go without companionship and regular sex with partners without going bonkers or harming others. It’s when you become convinced that it is your right to have sex with other people that YOU become a danger to the people around you. You (generic you) have no fucking rights to harm or impose upon anyone else. Period.
I still remember my childhood. When I was a kid I’d always assume I’d be a cool teenager. That I would have curves and boobs since my mom had both and that I’d also be tall (from my dad’s side. Haven’t seen him since 1999). Well by the time I got to be about 15 I realized neither was going to happen. I seemed to have drawn the short end of the genetic stick. I got stuck with my dad’s naturally thin figure and mom’s short height without the boobs or curves. Insult to injury I also have big feet for my height. My mom is the same way but her body masks that fact. I was and still am a hairy girl. I didn’t reach 100 lbs until I was 16 and even then I didn’t fill out until I was darn near 20.
I’m also a bit awkward. My mom always assured me I was beautiful and that one day I’d be a model and everyone would envy me. Well of course I have the size down but there’s no market in the modeling world for a thin girl barely pushing 100 lbs. So of course it didn’t happen. I also assumed that when I was a teen I’d have a boyfriend. Then I’d later assume I eventually would have someone in my mid 20s. After all, people havd been telling me ad nauseam that I’d meet the right person and have a family one day.
Well, I’m 26 in a few months and have no social life. Same as high school. I was also stupid enough to fool myself that a guy who crushed on me in high school and talked to me in spite of the fact of being found repulsive by eveyone else in school would be waiting for me. And I based this thought on some dumb dream I’d had of him getting me pregnant and him looking up at my bulging stomach. I’d had this dream in 2010. And it’s one of three dreams in my entire life that I remember so vividly. So I assumed this as some sort of sign.
I messaged him on FB and we talked a bit and tried to subltly flirt. But it’s been 3 days now. No response.
I guess hollywood needs to tell more stories of ugly and awkward girls who never grow out of that and lead sad lives. My family was also dysfunctional so I have no close knit family to turn to for support. I mainly have my uncle who I’m close with but we are long distance and he suffers from depression a bit.
At this point I really feel there’s not much hope for a love life for me. I am making good money and I get to pursue my passion but what’s the point when you’re getting old alone? I always thought that I’d never want to grow old. Especially if it means a few more decades of working and going home for the most part.
*
It doesn’t say anything about misogyny, mass murder, Elliot Rodger, or anything like that.
I also note that the trendline from the Washington Post shows female celibacy is rising too though much slower than men. If we are heading for a Japan trajectory both men and women will have much higher celibacy rates in a few years.