Pre-emptively: I was speculating, dammit.
Except IIRC you were talking about Scum (and a few Town) trying to get you lynched as early as last Night, long before you questioned Daphne.
Taken care of already.
Alka, what, if anything, do you do with the berynium you collect? Does it just serve to identify the person you took it from as being one of your four, or can you use it for something after you’ve collected it? And do you find out anything about the person other than just that they had berynium?
Meanwhile, another thought: I think there’s good evidence that at least one of Daphne, Boozahol, or peeker is lying. Both Boozahol and peeker have made claims that seem to indicate that they’d been blocked, but in different ways, and Daphne has claimed to be a roleblocker, but to have targeted neither. For all three to be true, it looks to me like we’d need at least three roleblockers in the game, each using a different flavor, and it doesn’t seem plausible to me that we’d have two differently-flavored blockers on the same side.
(Distracted by work, at least my partial post wasn’t lost)
It’s possible, Guiri.
[del]When we get to page 29 (which won’t be long now), would someone please post a summary of role claims and role-claim supports? (Ex. Boozy claimed in 1370, Alka supported the claim in 1374.)
This list may help us figure out which [/del] Tom, were you reading my mind?
Since you were, thanks very much for the list!
It seems clear to me that Boozy and Alka are on the same side; Gryff is probably on the same side. Just as a thought, confirming Alka as Town (or not) could give us a nucleus of Confirmed Townies. I defer to any non-limited investigator’s own judgment as to (1) when & whether to do this, and (2) when and whether to say so.
Meanwhile, I still haven’t caught up, and I still don’t have a better person to try and lynch. But it does occur to me as I type this that if Daphne did indeed block FS, we have no indication that this disrupted a kill. How likely is it that we have three killing roles plus Scum? (And I’m somewhat aware that role-blocking Scum doesn’t have to be a 100% definite blocking of their Night-kill.)
You know, the Scum can Day-strategize, so this isn’t outside of the realm of possibility. It would be one hell of a risky gambit, because it involves exposing Alka Seltzer as Scum as well. What’s funny is that I had been planning, prior to this development, to examine Alka Seltzer’s role in my bandwagon as well and see if I could hash out what I thought of him–I was leaning toward him being another Scum but couldn’t articulate why, which is never a good thing. Either I’m a damned genius, or the worst Scum-finder in the known universe. I’m leaning toward the latter at this point. Really, what are the odds? Chances are that what was pinging me was not scummitude, but an undertone of additional knowledge, which it turned out he probably had.
Well, clearly I think that Scum will be trying to get me lynched–I’m an easy target and I’m Town. My bandwagon, if it eventually occurs, will probably have some scum on it along with Town. Obviously the Scum can’t get me lynched by themselves, but they might be pushing it, or waiting for the opportune moment to pile-on. In the end, isn’t scum trying to get every Town member lynched that they aren’t trying to NK?
unvote
Currently not revoting at the moment. Will probably revote Daphne, but I’m a bit shaken at the moment and want some time to think it over.
My power didn’t function. That doesn’t mean it was blocked.
Thanks Mahaloth.
If one of us flips that will rule out that possibility. I did breadcrumb my role, after jpei claimed I said it would be a bad idea to lynch him because his role might be confirmable.
If that’s the case, Boozy can be counter-claimed or outed when the real MRM flips. It’s difficult to 100% confirm players in a closed setup, but I’d say the chance Boozy is scum is very small. If he isn’t town, the information in my role PM is very misleading, and this isn’t a gastard game. I’ll be treating him as town until I have a reason not to.
I’m quite liking amrussel’s case against Thing Fish, and she looks slightly worse now we know Boozy is town. I’ll also take another look at the reactions after jpei claimed, and discussion at the beginning of the day.
Presumably, the Head Screamer will have passed the bernyium info to the rest of the scum team, so any of them may have reacted.
I PM’ed the mods about this before the game started. I just get told whether a player has bernyium or not, I don’t know whose cache I’ve uncovered. That’s pretty irrelevant now, as it looks like all of the town bernyium is accounted for. I can’t do anything with the bernyium.
One other bit of info I have, once I collect bernyium I stash it, so players don’t get it back if I die.
If I wasn’t allowed to change my vote, I’d totally vote then unvote you for being a dirty rotten sneak-thief IRS agent, Alka.
Quoth Boozahol:
I know that you want to keep your claim soft (even though I think it was an anti-Town move), but will you at least say whether your wonderful mysterious power admits of some other explanation for why it might fail?
And yes, I know you said that there’s only a limited set of circumstances under which a power-role should full-claim, and that’s true, but guess what? Those are the same limited set of circumstances under which a power-role should soft-claim.
WoW on Thing Fish:
210: Elects AllWalker; speculates why OaOW isn’t eligible; argues for 5-day Days
274: OaOW should not claim, he is most likely scum target; AllWalker should make decision as to Day’s end
275: Scum might kill someone else because OaOW might be protected
330: OaOW shouldn’t be considered soft claim
341: “Would one of you scum please do something scummy? Thanks!” (no one yet looks scummy enough to vote) - also links post count page.
423: Votes are bandwagony. Votes peeker to break up bandwagon, says might vote DB later.
519: Unvotes peeker for claim; still suspicious. Considers DB wagon to be suspicious.
535: Queries Chronos over OaOW vote; considers OreDigger suspicious; defends contradiction between 423 (“will consider DB case”) and 519 (“DB wagon looks scummy”)
536: votes Boozy for 2 minute vote change
537: considers OreDigger case unlikely; why would Digger draw attention to self?
538: “OK, although I’ve expressed grave doubts about peeker’s claim, I absolutely think we should categorically rule out lynching a claimed Doc on Day One!” (responding to AllWalker)
550: pushes Boozy on 2-minute vote. “That time frame seems much less suggestive of thinking ‘who is making the most well reasoned case?’ and more consonant with ‘who can I get lynched who isn’t one of my scumbuddies?’”
551, 647: fluff
650: argues case for not lynching claimed doc on Day 1.
667: Explains Lynch all Liars to tiltawhirl
694: doesn’t think peeker giving role name/other color serves any Town purpose
696: queries jpei’s towniness (post-jpei claim)
698: says jpei should have claimed first, given time to react before using power.
801: Pushes boozy case, for 2-minute-vote reasons plus soft claim
803: fluff
849: reacts to jpei post; “Jpei seems to have some sort of connection with Boozy, which doesn’t mean, in my eyes, that either of them are any more likely to be Town.”
861: On peeker vig: “Another possibility would be that we have another Doc who is protecting peeker (this would be, IMO, poor play, but can’t be ruled out), so his surviving a Vig doesn’t even totally confirm him as a Doc, and to give us even that limited information, the Vig would have to out himself.”
862: accuses gueri of smudging Chronos
868: Downgrades “smudge” to “overly aggressive”
926, 943: fluff
950: review of voting: DB wagon still looks scummy; probably scum in Bill wagon, but hard to tell.
996: Elects Tom Scud. Still suspects Boozy; all town knows is that he had berynium, not nec. that he was town.
1052: reiterates suspicion of peeker over “A” claim
1053: “Noted that there appears to be a correlation between being willing to trust Boozy and being willing to jump relatively late onto the BillMC bandwagon” (pointing at Daphne, AllWalker, and tiltawhirl)
1093: re-reiterates suspicion of peeker, quoting Chronos.
1094: “Hey Mods, was berynium found on jpei’s body?”
1096: accuses Daphne of shifting bandwagons, wonders if she was trying to save peeker
1132: “I just noticed it as an interesting fact, not as a huge scumtell or anything.” also “Also noted on vote review: The three people who voted for both confirmed Townies jpei and BillMC at some time: Alka Seltzer, Daphne Black, and AllWalker. Alka and Daphne also had votes on Drain Bead at some point.” also “looking over Scummy Chitwood’s behavior vis-a-vis peeker, I must agree with those who have said that if this was scum strategy, it was very subtle!”
1217: Endorses Drain’s case against Daphne; votes Daphne. Accuses Alka of bandwagon-hopping, but doesn’t think he’s all that scummy.
1250: says Daphne claimed early
1251: unvotes Daphne, votes Boozy
1267: Discusses his “Daphne was trying to save peeker” idea; justifies voting on Boozy due to 2-minute switch, pursuit of peeker, Jimmy’s defense.
Not much here to add to amrussell’s case, although the combination of 1053 and 1132 sure looks passive-aggressive and smudgy to me.
Also, note that 2 of the 3 people mentioned in 1132 (Alka and Daphne) are the 2 Catinasuit pointed at as probable townies in his WoW on Jimmy.
Also also, pushing on Daphne and then jumping on the wagon in the #2 slot rather than casting the first vote looks pretty suspect.
In fact.
unvote cat
vote Thingy
/snipped
What? No Universal Health Care? No Olympic host city application?
2 things:
-Megacorp raised my suspicions, I remembered NEB and the Alliance but re-reading the opening color we’re told we’re in a different location and work for another industry giant so I guess Megacorp checks out so that’s a plus for Alka’s claim…
- Is it so hard to spell berynium? (Is that the way it’s spelled?) If your PM mentions the shiny stuff 2, 3 or 4 times, wouldn’t you spell it correctly at least once? That’s a negative for the claim.
/snipped
We may well have to do this test toMorrow…
Now it seems we have around 12, if not more, power roles among 24 players. As this is not a gastards game, does that sound over-powered to you people?
We’re just going to have to disagree on this. Unless you think that both **Alka **and I have conspired this whole thing as a way of confirming me as town at the risk of exposing him as scum when I die, I should be confirmed Town. If my powers lead me to having information that is necessary to the town, I’ll share. Otherwise, I don’t see any reason to let the scum in on the information party.
NETA:
Sorry, I didn’t respond to the question there. There is a particularly good reason why my power didn’t work, which doesn’t require the actions of a blocker.
Alka’s claim is certainly a strong point in your favor, and if he ends up being proven Town, then I’ll trust you completely. But I still think your partial claim is poor Town play.
But thank you for answering the question: That does, then, leave open the possibility that Daphne and peeker are both telling the truth.
Oh, and what’s the current status of the end-of-Day?
I think I lost a post in there somewhere. Bah. Anyway:
vote Drain Bead:
Same stuff as yesterday, which I have not changed my opinion on. Plus examination of Jimmy Chitwood’s post regarding her and her response.
345 – original post I had a problem with
I’ve already said as much as I can about this post. To me it reads not as “well, the mass alignment claim is great as long as everyone does it” (as DB later likes to characterize it) bur rather as “let’s not do this; it’s just noise, it’ll be a pain, isn’t likely to be effective, and oh yeah, the guy who suggested it might be Scum”.
395 – response to Alka Seltzer, who questioned post 345 but did not vote yet
Here’s one post she refers back to when claiming to have always been in support of a full mass alignment claim, and that her only objections were issues related to lack of full compliance. There are other problems with it, though. She still warns that the alignment claim could turn out to be just noise. She includes the baffling phrase “few people confident enough in their Towniness”, as if any Town player without a fatal case of the paranoids should have any difficulty with the concept of being Town. And she’s still poisoning the well by looking for reasons why a hypothetical Scum Chronos might be advantaged by a mass alignment claim.
398 – should have just been clearer in my first post on the subject
402 – In response to Oredigger. First part snipped, has to do with role-fishing, which doesn’t interest me as much as her responses to the alignment claim question.
Now, forcing all the Scum to claim a false alignment is somehow a bad thing? Okay, that wasn’t fair. Clearly by this point she is pushing hard for the idea that everyone should claim. However, she’s still emphasizing how hard it will be, and she’s still pushing the idea that someone scummy wanted it to happen.
416 is all about Chronos, as is 418 – she thinks Chronos has made it easier for Scum to find third parties or a second scum team than it would be for Town to find them.
428, in response to Gryff
Still arguing that some will stay silent, despite all evidence to the contrary (at least, claims continue to trickle in throughout this whole discussion, and in the end, everyone did claim with basically zero fuss other than the Drain Bead bandwagon). The accusations against Chronos mostly disappear here, though.
435
[spoiler]
This post really annoyed me. Drain Bead, if annoyance is still coming though in how I respond to you (and I’m sure it is), this post is why. After this, there was no way I could take what you said at face value. Almost everything about that original post #345 that I found objectionable has been snipped in the embedded quote, leaving only the part that could be read – in isolation – as encouraging of a particular course of action as regards the alignment claims, rather than as discouraging of the whole business. Further, you start here a pattern of smudging everyone left on your bandwagon at any given time, on the basis of having blatantly ignored your obvious meaning. It wasn’t obvious at all, even if it was meant the way you say it was, (and I think it wasn’t). You never acknowledge that.
436 & 438
[spoiler]
No comment.[/spoiler]
440
I see this, when combined with preceding and subsequent posts, as her still trying to have it both ways: It’s just noise and distraction, as evidenced by my mislynch; and I was right about that all along – but still, don’t say I was ever against the idea, because I wasn’t.
The second paragraph of this post, which I snipped, would be a “fair-enough” catch of ColdPhoenix missing her alignment claim, except that as shown in subsequent posts, she herself missed a few out of her list.
(442 has an excellent catch by AllWalker, which underlines some of the ad hoc* nature of her arguments as I see them:
)
450 contains another assertion that there are Scum to be found in her bandwagon.
456 – claims vanilla Town, once again questions her bandwagon
461 – (after Tom counts that all but two have claimed) great we effectively have a second cop if there is a lie detector, again questions her bandwagon
You know, I have no problem with this in concept. There are Scum in almost every bandwagon; it’s fruitful to try to root them out. But it’s self-serving to point this out over and over again (especially when directed broadcast as in these instances, as opposed to when aimed at a single suspicious person, like previously) when it’s your butt on the line. Whether it’s meant as such or not, it comes off as trying to bully townies out of voting for you, lest they be mistaken for Scum.
I think I’ve harped on this enough, but the pattern continues all Day long and into Today, usually with the same thing (that she was self-evidently never against a mass alignment claim) as support. I read her pointing out that Scum will be prominent in any bandwagon against her in the future as part of the same thing.
463 – Jimmy Chitwood chimes in. Skipping the quotes and the part about amrussell’s first point, which I agree wasn’t the strongest, the post reads as follows:
“I think that’s been hashed out to everybody’s satisfaction” Ha! Not to mine. But anyway. I think this counts as a defense, if a wishy-washy one. He gives Drain Bead’s voters credit as regards a hesitance on her part to claim town alignment, which is in fact the major point against her. And I note that where DB herself laid responsibility and suspicion regarding her bandwagon mostly at the feet of the people who started it, Jimmy is going after the later bandwagoners, or at least any of them who may have voted based on amrussel’s first argument as opposed to her second one/mine.
465 – Going over this now, this post is the one that most convinces me that Jimmy Chitwood and Drain Bead are on the same team:
The problem with this comment is that Jimmy in fact did NOT address everything DB found wrong with the argument against her. Look at this quote by Jimmy:
Compare that to what DB has been saying all along, that there is NO WAY anyone should be voting for her on that basis, because she’s made it perfectly clear she was not reluctant at all, and that’s been obvious since the beginning. Why is she not going after Jimmy for reinforcing the one thing she’s been most focused on debunking since the beginning? I can think of two options, neither of which speaks well for her, and one of which is completely damning.
- She didn’t even bother to read the post in full, hence missed the comment I just quoted.
- She and Jimmy planned this defense in advance to set the groundwork for bailing her out. Hence Jimmy can’t really contest what he knows is the strongest evidence against her; and she can’t acknowledge that he didn’t.
485 (comes after peeker’s claim)
Her intent in taking the fall today? At this point she hasn’t yet fallen on her sword and asked to die, so I’m not sure what she’s referring to – the idea must already be in her head, in any case. Guess the interval between the two posts was only about ten minutes.
488 – she falls on her sword
Those who are defending Drain Bead on the basis that no Scum turned up to add to her bandwagon after this – why on earth would they, given she is still the clear leader, and she’s just asked for that not to happen? What would it accomplish Scum to add their votes at this point? IIRC this point has come up from more than one person, so odds are there is some logic behind it that isn’t unique to Scum, but I’m not seeing it. Any help?
Anyway, besides falling on her sword, she’s the first person to suggest vigging peeker as a doctor-test. Which makes no sense in multiple ways, even if Jimmy Chitwood did say so himself. On the other hand, I’m having difficulty finding an unambiguous Scum motive, either. At this point she must still have believed she was quite likely to be lynched, in which case if she turned up Scum, people would be looking at this post assuming it was dishonest. I can’t disentangle the WIFOM here, so it’s probably just as well I think peeker is unlikely to be Scum for other reasons.
I continued for a while after this, but there’s not really much new. I’ll address it if necessary, but I’m tired.
Normal, FWIW I don’t get those who defended me on the basis that I didn’t get bussed either. Shit, it’s what I asked for–why would Scum jump on me at that point? There was no benefit for anyone, Town or Scum, to vote for me after that point. I had the votes to be lynched.
I’ve already addressed the rest of what you’ve said as best I could. Vote me or not, I don’t really care at this point. I don’t think you’re particularly scummy for doing so, and you’re not pinging my scumdar in other ways (not that there are any other ways, as you’ve pretty much been preoccupied with going after me so far in this game). But really, beyond that, I don’t really care one way or another if I get lynched toDay or any other Day. Not the worst mistake on Earth, and maybe y’all might learn something.
There was a long delay between me typing most of this in quick reply and posting it (had to put the baby down to bed) so I apologize if any of what I said has been addressed since about 6:30 when I finished typing all but the last sentence of it.
<snipped>
intepreted correctly apparently based on your response.
i don’t. that’s only two night kills. this game will last forever if that is the set up.
this is not right. a claimed doc is no way in heck going to protect a, for all intents and purposes, niller townie. i mean i play blink but i also know when to back off and play the overall odds.