That’s fine. The store can choose to have this policy and fire employees who fail to follow store policy. But that is vastly different from a carding law.
I can even imagine the motivations for such policy. The store is trying to create a buffer zone to insulate themselves from the penalties should an employee be discovered selling to minors. But as far as laws are concerned, there generally aren’t such “buffer zones.” Either you commit an offense or you don’t. I’m not aware of situations in which it is illegal to “come close to” violating a law. (Of course, coming close to violating one law, might constitute the commission of a separate lesser offense.)
There is a hidden benefit to carding everyone, every time. It removes all subjectivity and potential bias from the transaction and provides for a single, objective standard. Otherwise, there is always a risk of a claim of unlawful discrimination (gender, race, national origin, religion), let alone the perceived bias of because the potential customer’s ego just got bruised. Since our society will sue for just about any reason, or excuse, companies enforce a single, objective standard and eliminate all doubt.
It is what happens with a zero tolerance policy, a litigious society out looking for a fight at every corner, and not enough potential Darwin Award nominees to help cull the herd at an earlier age.
Okay, I’m bored at work, so I looked up the NY law, since Otu’s link specifically states it is for informational purposes only.
NY law concerning sale of tobacco to minors: Ch. 45, Art. 13-F, section 1399-aa et. seq.
Sect. 1399-cc(2) states:
But the following section, 1399-cc(3) provides:
The penalties section seems to say sales to a minor is 2 points, and violating section (3) - the carding section - gets you 1 point.
So it appears NY does in fact have a law requiring the carding of people who are legally authorized to buy smokes. Strikes me as - um - odd, not to mention problematically worded, but it does appear to be the law.
The tobacco industry has a voluntary advertising policy where they claim to not use models that appear to be under the age of 25. They do not always get this right, as the following study shows that 17% of the models look significantly younger than 25.
Guessing age is tough. When Hollywood typically uses adults to portray teenages (the 90210 syndrome as I call it), it gets tough for people to determine age based on looks. Add in makeup and cleavage girls, and the young guy at the counter is at a loss to determine if a customer is legal to purchase. To make this clearer to the average convenience store clerk, the store tells them to card anyone who looks under 25 - no doubt in an attempt to provide a significant margin of error.
Around here, the cops regularly send in underage kids to try straw purchases for alcohol. They will park a couple of underaged girls outside of the store asking people to buy for them. Waiting in the parking lot is the cops, and a reporter. The story hits the news, and underaged straw purchases are slowed down at the margins. With that type of sting going on, I can not blame clerks for also over-carding to CYA.
I carded up to the appearance of 30 as a bartender (and had my share of cleavage displayed in hopes of distraction). The cleavage girls were actually an incentive - the longer I could get them to try to get me to bend, the longer I got to ogle without them being able to get mad at me! Once I watched them leave, walked outside, spotted the cops, and said “hello.” I told the cops to come by after shift - one did.
The thing that sucks is, is there any other regular job a teenager could have where they could possibly get arrested for breaking the law several times a day, every day? No other job but grovery/convenience store clerk do you have to make daily decisions that would involve the law I don’t think.
Of course not - they did it in an attempt to be allowed to keep up SOME advertising. If not, they risk having all of their advertising outlawed somehow.
Is it a crime for a minor to ask to purchase the thing? So far, all I’ve seen in the quotes in this thread is that it’s illegal to actually sell the stuff to them. If I missed the pertinent part, just point me to the appropriate post, please.
Our local AM/PM franchisee has stopped accepting vertical ID’s (i.e. under 21) for tobacco purchases. They’re just not taking the chance anymore that a 16 year old driver can buy cigarettes. Pissed off ALOT of 20 year olds.
I feel like people would be more agreeable towards staff if they understood how severe the penalties are for not carding or for conducting business with underage patrons. I mostly bartend but I spend the occasional night at the door carding people as they come in. I card everyone who looks under the age of 30, as per bar policy. I have been way off in some of my guesses but for the most part, these people end up being under 30. I have been doing this for nearly a year and I can only remember getting one real complaint from a lady who didn’t feel like producing her ID. No one really gives me a hard time and the people that I have turned away were also quite agreeable (no objections).
As for the OP, I don’t really see why folks get so worked up about being carded to make a purchase. I would accept more complaints from someone getting carded to enter an establishment. If you’re buying something your wallet has to come out eventually. Just flip open the stupid window and call it a day.
I was in an airport recently. I forget what city. The airport had just instituted a policy where they carded every body no matter what. It was funny watching this 25 year old girl apologizing to every single person who came into the bar that she needed ID. None of of the people beside myself and my lovely bride looked a day under 50.
Yes, it is. But most of the laws I’ve seen provide an exemption for minors who are working on behalf of the cops in these underage stings. I know Florida has such a law.
But how can you enforce such a law?
16 year old kid: I would like a pack of Marlboro’s, please.
Clerk: May I see some ID?
16 year old kid: I left it at home.
Clerk: I can’t sell you cigarettes, then.
16 year old kid: Ok. I understand. Sorry for the confusion, please have a wonderful day and give my best to your family.
Then drive down the road to the next store and try again.
Especially when you remember that restraining a minor against his or her will, has been prosecuted as a kidnapping attempt, with a mandatory life-time membership on the sex offender list. Regardless of the motive for the restraint. (ISTR a case a couple of years ago, where a guy was being prosecuted for just this, with the sex offender registry listing, for holding a girl for the police to arrive after she’d just run out in traffic and nearly got herself killed.)
Why wouldn’t they look at the birth date? I got a vertical license when I turned 20 (old style WA state IDs expired in 4 years, not 5) and not once in 4 years had a problem getting a beer when I wanted one.
The thing is, it would never work, because stores are so worried about the penalties, that they card everyone who looks under 27. The laws seem really strict, but they are working.