Scum mafia: On Cecil pond [Game Over]

[sachertorte]

Actually, I kind of want to kill Meeko now.

[storyteller0910]

@Meeko

Reveal the drawback now. If it is as you say, hold off on firing untill we get Scum to a number where we can take care of that for you.

And further, if Scum can handle you in a particular way, then you have information that town needs.

You see how hard you are making this game? You are making up a brand new side-quest;
**
Hunt the scum, and gather the 3 golden [and triangle shaped] pieces of Story’s tainted power. **

I don’t know about you, but my internal ““game gear”” is about to run out of batteries on this.

Nope. Screw you. If you think I’m Scum and lying, then lynch me. If you think I’m not lying, then you don’t need to know.

I will reveal my power it at one minute before the deadline if I am going to be lynched, in order to supply the maximum amount of information, but I will not do it at any time before then and I will NOT do it while I am alive. As long as I am in the game, the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.

[DiggitCamara]

@fluiddruid

do you truly believe that Story is town and I am scum? If so, please explain my reasoning for targeting him in this manner. I’d be curious to know my motives.

Really? You have never seen this action?

I can see a very strong motivation for this line of action:

Let’s suppose, for a moment, that neither storyteller nor **sachertorte **are scum. Their discussion seems to be headed to the lynch of one of both of them.

1. Arguing (strongly) for the “winning” cause gets you on the good side of a strong Town player
2. Arguing (strongly) for the “losing” cause shows you were supporting the cause of a Town player. If you play your cards right you can even get the other player lynched during the next Day
3. Both cases allow you to hide behind the “ringleader”

Anyhow, I do remember your actions during the one game where you were scum and I was mason. I think your actions now resemble those back then. Too closely for my own confort

So:

Lyse fluiddruid
Lyse spawn

[Meeko]

@storyteller0910

Nope. Screw you. If you think I’m Scum and lying, then lynch me. If you think I’m not lying, then you don’t need to know.

I will reveal my power it at one minute before the deadline if I am going to be lynched, in order to supply the maximum amount of information, but I will not do it at any time before then and I will NOT do it while I am alive. As long as I am in the game, the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.

**
Hold on a second.

I thought you said that the information is A DRAWBACK to your vigging.

If You don’t Vig, what do we have to fear from your Virgin Vig Death? **

[Rysto]

What the hell? Where on earth have these story votes come from? This late switch looks scummy as hell. I have the vote tied at five apiece for story and fluid.

[DiggitCamara]

@storyteller0910

Nope. Screw you. If you think I’m Scum and lying, then lynch me. If you think I’m not lying, then you don’t need to know.

I will reveal my power it at one minute before the deadline if I am going to be lynched, in order to supply the maximum amount of information, but I will not do it at any time before then and I will NOT do it while I am alive. As long as I am in the game, the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.

Not that I don’t want to know, but remember the random spawn votes when you decide to disclose your power.

[Rysto]

NETA: Diggit’s vote puts fluid back in the lead, if my count is correct.

[storyteller0910]

@Meeko

**
Hold on a second.

I thought you said that the information is A DRAWBACK to your vigging.

If You don’t Vig, what do we have to fear from your Virgin Vig Death? **

What are you asking here?

I mean, if I die, you won’t have a Vig any more, so that’ll be bad.

The drawback can be managed, even ameliorated, under very specific and limited circumstances. The minute I share it, my hope of using my power effectively in one of the few possible situations where it will be useful is reduced significantly. Thus I will not reveal it so long as I’m in the game. If I’m to be lynched toDay, I’ll let you all in on it once my death appears inevitable, in case it has some sort of relevance to the rest of the setup (and because the drawback is only relevant if I’m alive, and it would be kind of jerky to keep the secret to my grave, y’know?).

---

All -

I apologize for my intemperance. I am OMGUS-ing all over the place and getting worked up and it’s foolish. I will try to reassess the situation and post a few more times before the deadline, but I do have to go now and shovel snow.

Sorry again for freaking out.

[sachertorte]

I don’t think the case against storyteller is nearly as weak as he says it is. But he does have a point here that I agree with:

@storyteller0910

I role claimed a role that, if I’m lying, I stand an excellent chance of getting killed. If I’m not lying, I may come in handy somewhere down the line. And I may not. But the fact that my role has a wrinkle that I don’t want to disclose is not a Scum tell. For fuck’s sake, if I were lying, I’d have just fucking said, “Hey, I’m a normal Vig” and then just said “whoops, got blocked,” or “hey, got redirected,” or what the hell ever.

That said, I prefer lynching storyteller over fluiddruid.
I’m willing to switch back to Mahaloth though. (I’m wary of that move though since he has already stated limited availability for the rest of the day).

See? Late votes are sucky BAD. (That includes you storyteller).

[Meeko]

@storyteller0910

I will reveal my power it at one minute before the deadline if I am going to be lynched,

in order to supply the maximum amount of information, but I will not do it at any time before then and I will NOT do it while I am alive.

As long as I am in the game, the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.

Snipped and expanded

1. You already revealed you are Vig. Do you want to update that statement?

2.I disagree that this would give ““maximum”” amount of information. Also, you will have to disclose this information at some point while you are alive or never do it at all.

3.Oh, so it is information now? I thought it was a Vig drawback, that came from vigging.

Are you saying now that you are not a Vig, that you have information that triggers regardless of if you Vig or not?
Story, you slipped on something. Stop digging, get out and tell us.

[Meeko]

@storyteller0910

and because the drawback is only relevant if I’m alive, and it would be kind of jerky to keep the secret to my grave, y’know?).

I think it’s kinda jerky of you now.

**
Oh, and I will point out, that I did bring up the question of asking what would happen if you Vigged yourself. **
**
You could Vig scum, and then tell us all to vote for you. **

Voting for a Compulsory Vig is not unheard of, right gang?

[Freudian_Slit]

Sorry I haven’t been posting much. I’ve been kind of exhausted these past two days.

Anyway, I’m going to unvote Rysto

And at the moment, I have no idea. I mean, I don’t inherently think that storyteller being reluctant to give info is bad. He could genuinely have a good reason for it. It does seem odd that he put himself out there as the vig so soon and now is talking about this weird restriction. It all strikes me as very strange.

I’ll add my vote to him on the pile.

Vote Story

[fluiddruid]

@DiggitCamara

Really? You have never seen this action?

I can see a very strong motivation for this line of action:

Let’s suppose, for a moment, that neither storyteller nor **sachertorte **are scum. Their discussion seems to be headed to the lynch of one of both of them.

1. Arguing (strongly) for the “winning” cause gets you on the good side of a strong Town player
2. Arguing (strongly) for the “losing” cause shows you were supporting the cause of a Town player. If you play your cards right you can even get the other player lynched during the next Day
3. Both cases allow you to hide behind the “ringleader”

Which ringleader? I’m the ringleader of the anti-Story vote. Who am I hiding behind, exactly?

Your entire post presumes that I was falling in line with an existing campaign against Story (presumably you’re faulting Sachertorte for this). There simply isn’t evidence for this. Sachertorte did disagree with Story many times regarding strategy but he did not actively campaign that he was a scum candidate. Your description is simply wrong, and reeks of skimming at best.

And, again, read my posts subsequent to the one you decided to respond to one line of (!) to vote for me. Why, exactly, would I decide to go after Story? Sach would have been just as good of a target and hadn’t been my direct advocate. If I’m trying to get on the “good side” of a strong Town player, why alienate another strong player, particularly one so outspoken in my defense re: the peeker vote, in the process?

[Meeko]

@sachertorte

Actually, I kind of want to kill Meeko now.

[fluiddruid]

@storyteller0910

I disagree with sach, Alka Seltzer, and others regarding double-lynching. This is not a Scum tell.

I’ve repeatedly, repeatedly, REPEATEDLY acknowledged this.

It’s been spun into something else by a lot of players, but Scum in my place would have no motivation to do anything I’ve done. Think past what’s being sold here. sachertorte has always asked, “what’s the Scum motivation?” Always. It’s been his guiding principle. And here he is, gleefully facilitating a lynch that is everything he has always objected to - based on strategy disagreements, absent any plausible Scum motivation.

But there IS a strong scum motivation. Scum win by a) avoiding enough suspicion to get them killed and b) by manipulating votes. Just because the double-lynch-player scheme doesn’t win you a lot of points in the first category, it undoubtedly does in the second, even if – heck, ESPECIALLY if – scum are not the people who are double-voting players.

I role claimed a role that, if I’m lying, I stand an excellent chance of getting killed. If I’m not lying, I may come in handy somewhere down the line. And I may not. But the fact that my role has a wrinkle that I don’t want to disclose is not a Scum tell. For fuck’s sake, if I were lying, I’d have just fucking said, “Hey, I’m a normal Vig” and then just said “whoops, got blocked,” or “hey, got redirected,” or what the hell ever.

Then why do you continue to evade and avoid relevant questions which have nothing whatsoever to do with your drawback? I’ll repeat them again:

• Why do you insist on voting late?
• Why did you say that you feel like you should have claimed on Day One?
• How are we supposed to verify your claims?

This is a terrible case.

As my sister used to say when she was five: “Says you.”

I would have had a lot more faith in your role claim, Story, if you had been forthright from the start. Instead you’ve continually mischaracterized what I’ve said in order to dismiss it. I can’t see a Town motivation to do so! You never actually addressed the points I made in my long posts, you just handwaved them away. When pursued, you role-claimed and teased a critical drawback that for some reason you told us about, though not the details (strangely enough).

Role claim aside. Double-player-lyse aside. Why do you keep avoiding my questions?

[Freudian_Slit]

Also, story, didn’t you say you claimed because you’d be away from the computer and unable to defend yourself if you did rack up votes?

[storyteller0910]

Holy Christ, yes, ON WEDNESDAY. I SAID I WOULD BE AWAY ON WEDNESDAY.

I’ve changed my mind again; I’m done with this Day. Lynch me or don’t, but the fact that people are just flat out doing shit like Freudian just did makes it clear that I’m getting lynched.

If I kill, neither the role nor the alignment of the player I kill will be publicly revealed.

Now kill me, please.

Storyteller, out.

[sachertorte]

@Meeko

Not today. I need to think about it more. I might have been too hasty there.

[Chronos]

Vote total:
Spawn 14
storyteller0910 6
fluiddruid 5
KellyCriterion 3
Mahaloth 3

[del]1: special ed[/del]
2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (727), fluiddruid (975)
3: Drain Bead – Spawn (737), [del]Rysto[/del] (785-909), fluiddruid (971)
4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (717), fluiddruid (949)
5: storyteller0910 – [del]fluiddruid (968), Spawn (968), sachertorte (989)[/del]
6: Meeko – Spawn (715), [del]KellyCriterion[/del] (824-874), [del]fluiddruid[/del] (987-1009), [del]TexCat[/del] (1009-1013), storyteller (1013)
7: Mahaloth – Spawn (721), KellyCriterion (778)
8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (718), [del]Rysto[/del] (802-1032), storyteller (1032)
9: USCDiver – Spawn (749)
10: Alka Seltzer – Spawn (821), Storyteller (900)
[del]11: peekercpa[/del]
12: Natlaw – KellyCriterion (886)
13: Zeriel – [del]Drain Bead[/del] (796-901), KellyCriterion (796), [del]Spawn[/del] (901-1006), storyteller (1006)
14: DiggitCamara – [del]Drain Bead[/del] (795-894), fluiddruid (1023), spawn (1023)
15: amrussell – [del]Drain Bead[/del] (867-880), Mahaloth (959), Spawn (994)
16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (740), Mahaloth (838)
17: Scuba_Ben
18: sachertorte – [del]Mahaloth[/del] (860-1008), Spawn (864), storyteller (1008)
19: fluiddruid – Spawn (804), storyteller (851)
20: TexCat – Spawn (722), Mahaloth (1010)
21: Rysto – Spawn (917), fluid (917)
By my count, Storyteller currently has three votes in place, and therefore none of them will be counted

[sachertorte]

@storyteller0910

Holy Christ, yes, ON WEDNESDAY. I SAID I WOULD BE AWAY ON WEDNESDAY.

I’ve changed my mind again; I’m done with this Day. Lynch me or don’t, but the fact that people are just flat out doing shit like Freudian just did makes it clear that I’m getting lynched.

If I kill, neither the role nor the alignment of the player I kill will be publicly revealed.

Now kill me, please.

Storyteller, out.

This isn’t nearly as bad as I would have thought. I can see why storyteller thinks its bad and it does hurt the town to have a dead player with no information, but I see an opportunity as well. It is my belief that giving scum the power to kill and suppress role information is remarkably unfair. The idea of a town player who can kill but don’t get alignment information is sucky but balanced. I believe storyteller has the opportunity to prove his alignment by executing a kill.

The question is: is the benefit of possibly confirming storyteller worth killing a player and not getting alignment information? If storyteller succeeded in confirming his power, is that sufficient to confirm him as Town?