Avenge meeeeee!
Also: Spoiler me!
OK, I’ve spoiled you, but you’ll have to find someone else for the avenging.
I felt the end of last summer getting VERY escalated.
I felt if the end of summer came perhaps an hour later, I would have been lynched.
I would like to think that the time off helped all of us cool down, to the point where it could blow over.** I figured I had to address the situation as soon as this summer started. While it is not an apology, I feel it does some of the same things. **
For reasons I don’t think I will ever understand, I have gotten pressure on me for my number of Unvotes. As if my actions alone could be the scapegoat for everyone else, and their votes. As if my votes had more power to them than any other. Obviously, it is a part of the game, so I would like to think there is some inflation on my ““charges”” of unvoting. And indeed I do feel charged with something.
In short Mahaloth, The game got to me, and I told the game I needed some time. I felt when I came back, I would have some 'splaining to do. People are trying to look at my votes and conclude something. If you guys conclude anything, let me know, I am dying to know myself.
I Reject the premise of the second statement. The game got to me, and the reaction there was rapid fire responses with out the luxury of expanding my thoughts in the more favorable way as seen for most of this game. I think that there is a negative correlation between you guys understanding me, and time left to answer posts in each day. Make no mistake, my posts for this game still average 30-45 minutes [And the Olympics aren’t helping]. There is no way to make 45 minutes into 15. There is no way to get this, in the time I felt I had left to answer at the end of last summer.
I reject it further, because I do not believe that anyone, and certainly not you Mahaloth would entertain that I would “chose” to post like my previous games, at any point in time, let alone when I have demonstrated an alternative. I can chose to post like this, certainly, but when I don’t chose anything, I think we all know the alternative.
The question was brought up, if you could scum hunt from Votes alone. I believe that scum hunting from votes needs to be defined further. What votes do we count, what votes do we not count? Do we count timing? Do we count vote position? [Are you the third to vote for someone? Was there 3 votes after one post, but only one vote after each of three other posts?]
Hey guys; I’m just checking in quickly. I’m at my parents for a long weekend but I will be home on Wednesday. Until they my participation will be rather sporadic.
Like Rysto, just checking in.
Will be having a thorough re-read to decide what on earth happened to cause the late flood of votes on fluid.
On another note, the night kills of special ed and Zeriel. Is there anything we can glean out of the scum decision to kill them? (I am assuming of course that the scum are killing every night, and the kills aren’t the result of some kind of “power role”)…
Finally, congratulations, Mahaloth. For the first time all game, you’ve managed to get through the first part of a Day without racing your vote on to a Townie. Well done.
Vote spawn
This post bugs me. I’ve read you’re new to the game. It sounds like PIS, and smudge on Mahaloth. Please explain why you believe that Mahaloth races in to vote a town player. In other words, if you’ve got a case, make it. FOS Kelly Criterion.
Meeko, you voted me at the end of the day yesterday (before I subbed in) on the basis that you had some questions that you’d like answers to. Can you please restate these questions so that I don’t have to hunt to find them?
And if anyone else has any questions or concerns that they asked me (scuba) before that he didn’t not address please also restate them so that I may address them.
My initial feelings: None really, this game has been very active and there has been a lot of strategy discussion which IMO is often meaningless in determining scum. AKA, I’m still organizing my thoughts and digesting things.
@Alka: You may have already answered this; if so, feel free to point me to the relevant posts as I may have missed them. You were fairly persistent when Storyteller refused to continue discussion of double player lysing with you, what then is the scum motivation for refusing to continue discussion? I think there is something here that I’m missing.
Since many have commented on their position of double-lysing, I shall do so as well, so that it’s on the record. There are only a tiny handful of situations where I see double lysing as effective for town play. Quite frankly, if you vote two players, you better have a pretty damn good justification. The attitude “that spawn is already going to be lynched, I might as well vote two players” is anti-town. If you vote this way, you are providing extra cover for scum to spread their votes amongst themselves, and dilute the voting record. If you want to put pressure on another player, then make a solid case, or use your one remaining vote.
Vote spawn
I have no idea why he keeps doing it, but it’s certainly not very pro-Town, is it?
As for whether it’s a smudge on Mahaloth, yes, you most certainly can consider it a smudge.
As for my “Perfect Information Slip” (hey! KellyCriterion said he’s a noob but he knows what PIS stands for! LYNCH HIM!!), uhm, huh? Mahaloth voted for peeker early on Day 1 (peeker got lynched and turned up town), and then voted for me early on Day 2. If my “perfect information slip” was knowing my own alignment in this game, then yes, I’m guilty of PIS.
No one else knows your alignment, Kelly, and lots of other people voted for peeker on Day 1 and fluid on Day 2, and for Ed, and maybe even for Zeriel but I don’t exactly recall.
So if you’re going to smudge someone for voting for a townie, Mahaloth is in good company and your smudge is going to have to be a wee bit bigger. If you are going to try and smudge someone for voting early, I’m afraid you’re likely to have even less luck with that.
Town votes for town all the time. Town voting for someone and having them turn up town is not really telling of anything (null). Mostly because town has no clue who other town is, and generally will vote town more often than vote scum.
Smudging is bad. Smudging is impugning someone with no real case, or casting suspicion in a matter that seemingly avoids accountability.
More bluntly, why do wish to cast suspicion on Mahaloth on such spurious reasoning? If you have better reasoning, why have you not presented that instead of this faux-reasoning?
I think you are looking at the context differently than I am, let me rephrase. It seems like you are implying that he is consistiently voting for town early. And that he made some statements about Meeko, and you are congratulating him on refraining from voting Meeko. The possible PIS is how do you know Meeko is town?
Nor did I suggest they did.
My criticism was very specifically that Mahaloth raced early votes on to townies at the beginning of Days 1 & 2, not simply that he voted for townies.
As explained above, no it isn’t.
Again, no. Racing early votes on to townies was my criticism. If you remove the part about the townies or if you remove the part about the early voting, you’re no longer talking about anything I said.
Here, let me repeat it from my original post:
See my post above. I did not criticise Mahaloth because he voted for a townie.
OK, I didn’t know that “smudge” has a Mafia-specific definition. What I intended to say was, I am casting suspicion at Mahaloth. More accurately, I am casting suspicion on his non-pro-Town actions.
And I say it’s not spurious, but rather, quite solid.
Oh… is that the suspicion? My comment was simply in reference to the fact that there was no early vote from Mahaloth, hence, no early vote on a townie. Had nothing to do with anything going on with Meeko. I don’t think I even read Mahaloth’s post… I just checked to see if he’d voted yet.
This. The late votes and bandwagons really hurt town.
@Red - There is currently a mason claim on the table (Drain Bead). If you are a mason, and Drain is not, I think you should counter-claim. In the absence of a counter, Drain is almost certainly town. The only way Drain could be scum is if Communal Organism is not a mason (unlikely), and the scum were somehow able to guess this (even more unlikely).
Looking at Meeko, I thought most of his Day 1 and Day 2 play was fine, I could understand what he was doing and why. I don’t know what to make of his play at the end of yesterDay.
@Meeko - You need to think about the game from a town[/U perspective. The death of a player without learning their alignment is a huge penalty to town, we can’t then look at the voting record to make judgements on the alignment of other players. You should understand this, weren’t you involved in the Lost game where this problem was a major factor in the town loss?
@Meeko - Your unvotes were also a factor in the Fluid mislynch. What were you thinking about the case on Fluid? Did you post anything about this?
What initially caught my eye was that Story was consistantly arguing an anti-town position without making any effort to address the points against it. Fluid’s WoWs on Story covers a lot of this. His position is even harder to understand in the light of his claim. He is saying that he can’t kill spawn. From his perspective, that should increase the danger of leaving spawn alive, he had even less reason to assume they could be dealt with without lysing one every Day.
I have speculated on what Story’s scum motivation might have been in various posts. I’ll summarise my case against Story into when I have time, but there are some other things I need to look at. One of the things I was worrying about, that Story might be a Toughguy, now looks unlikely, unless a town blocker stopped him last night (would a Toughguy normally lose their bonus kill if that happened?).
@Town - I think this post of mine may have been missed in the scrum at the end of the Day: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12105864&postcount=1043. Also, is there any way we could test Story’s claim, and are there any circumstances where we might want to use his power? The only scenario I can think of is if we could generate a large pool of confirmed town, and wanted to increase the death-rate in unconfirmed pool.
I have no information relating to any of the claims which have been made so far, other than what has been posted during the day threads.
Kelly, you are moving from beyond noobishness to idiocy.
I think you are actually attacking me because I voted for you yesterDay. However, how do I know you are town? I don’t!
Early votes are good. Late votes are usually bad. Sure, we all know I voted for peeker early, but I didn’t know he was town until it was revealed. Did you? And as for my early vote for you, we still don’t know if you are town or not. Of course you “know” this, but we don’t!!! I did not place and OMGUS vote, which I think you…actually did against me!
I get that you don’t want me to vote for you, but don’t start attacking early voters. That is anti-town.
Just chill out.
I have been suspicious of storyteller for his double lyse position and for his insistence on voting late. I don’t believe I ever got an answer to why he is insists on voting late; he just said that he always would. It is certainly possible to read this as a scum who wants to wait to see where his vote is needed and where it will not lead to suspicion, unless he really needs to lead a bandwagon away from a fellow scum earlier in the day.
Regarding story’s claim and the drawback, sachertorte asked him some pretty specific questions:
Later, after quite a bit of pressure, story reveals the drawback:
After all of that, I understand that not getting roles or alignments is bad for pondies. I don’t understand how revealing the drawback is “a handbook on how to handle me available to the Scum.” I don’t understand how “the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.” And I don’t understand the one situation that story might have used his power is somehow different now that the pond knows the drawback.
This all smells like a scum claim to me. Story claimed vig and then had to provide some reason for not having his claim tested and so he invented the drawback. He did not plan on revealing the drawback and so some of the reveal seems not to have been thought out very thoroughly. The reasons for not revealing the drawback do not seem to match the actual drawback.
vote spawn
vote storyteller
I am not trying to be a dick here, but I think we are both confused.
**
I had questions to Chronos, on what the value of voting Scuba would be after he stated he had the possibillity [and now certainty] of being Subbed. **
Obviously, a Sub is different than a Mod kill.
I will have to review my case on Scuba/Red. I will represent my case towards you if I make one, Red, but I can not think of any outstanding questions currently.
-
Repeating : I think we can all agree that I can either post Quality or Quantity. Quantity comes at the penalty of being a 45 minute ordeal. I felt attacked and my reflex was rapid quantity. Quality and coherence went out the door.
-
You asked for this, so I will go back here again. In LOST the same situation came up. We later found out that my unvote saved the lynch of a townie. The argument still remains, that everyone and their brother was on me, because I would not cast the deciding vote to lynch a Townie.
I fail to see how unvoting a townie, is Anti-Town. But sure enough, this is exactly what I was charged with.
Players still in the game remain Town, or Scum after a death with out information. The informationless death only stops the play of the dead person.
There is no worse fate here, than if a player completely stops playing, and is not subbed or mod killed.
How does my Unvoting for Fluid cause the mislynch?
**As I remember the math, the Spawn would broke any tie, anyway. **
NETA: Quality comes at the cost of being a 45 minute ordeal.:smack:
Vote total:
Spawn 7
Storyteller0910 1
[del]1: special_ed[/del]
2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (1139)
3: Drain Bead
4: Oredigger77
5: storyteller0910
6: Meeko – Spawn (1135)
7: Mahaloth – Spawn (1140)
8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (1136)
9: USCDiver
10: Alka Seltzer
[del]11: peekercpa[/del]
12: Natlaw
[del]13: Zeriel[/del]
14: DiggitCamara
15: amrussell
16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (1145)
17: Red Skeezix – Spawn (1146)
18: sachertorte
[del]19: fluiddruid[/del]
20: TexCat – Spawn (1155), Storyteller (1155)
21: Rysto
Go for quality please.
Didn’t a town player die anyway, but as a result of the tie no-one knew if they were town or scum? That was why it was anti-town. It’s a disaster for a player to die without town finding out their alignment.
See above.
Your unvote of Story implies that you thought Fluid was a better lynch that him. Was this the case? Did you indicate this anywhere? Unvotes can be just as significant as votes.