SDMB Assholes aka mass ignorance on the SDMB

The BBQ Pit
1

I never actually thought I’d ever pit anyone. But this thread has me so pissed off I can barely see straight!

I really can’t compose a good “rant” right now because I’m so mad at the mass ignorance displayed in that thread. I’m going to email it to John Walsh and hope that he will speak out against the kind of scum saying the kinds of things those people are saying.

I don’t really give a fuck if the mods ban me for what I said in that thread or this one. If there is one decent mod among you, you will lock that thread (and delete it), condemn its participants, and warn them that future threads of that sort will be immediate cause for banning.

And to the participants of that thread (those blaming the child or her family), I hope you die a painful and violent death.

And if I’m banned because of this all I will be able to say is “fighting ignorance my ass”.

If I’m supported in this then I will have regained some confidence in the decency of people and I will thank you.

2

You posted that in GD?

You will smited by the Gods of that forum.

BTW, you’re a jerk. Your self-described ‘decency’ not withstanding.

3

Sorry, kp_72110, I don’t get your vibe. In the thread you link to, some posters are displaying the behaviour you complain of, others are arguing with them. It’s a debate.

Were there some particular posts that deserve attention? If so which ones?

If, on the other hand, you’re saying that the subject should be off limits, then no, you’re wrong. You can’t fight ignorance if you don’t permit ignorant people to participate.

4

Oh my goodness. Control your anger. Don’t wish anyone pain and death!

Yes, some people have (IMO) questioned this Elizabeth Smart case a little too much—second-guessing the dad’s behavior, trying to (I suspect) imply that Elizabeth may have willfully "consented’ to the sex with her captor (yeah, that really happened). But there are others on that thread who don’t agree with such ideas. And they’re disagreeing without wishing death on those with whom they disagree. It can be done.

5

Look, I can apologize for the death wishing. Sorry. But I still stand by my assertion that the thread is improper. Sometimes “fighting ignorance” is not allowing the types of things being said there to be on your forum.

Goddamnit, she is a kid that was kidnapped by a beast and most likely suffered much sexual and mental abuse and god only knows told what would happen to her and her family, her little sister more importantly, if she didn’t submit and take her new identity.

Tell ya what, when your child has to suffer through such things and you can tell me for certain how she is supposed to act at the end of the ordeal, then maybe those views will have some credence. Until then, I suggest people wait until they actually know all the facts and not rely on the media for their information as if they are the know-all, end-all to all of this.

And btw, that isn’t a debate going on in their. It might have the appearance of one, but damnit, it’s a pile on of that poor family.

It’s wrong. You may not have to ban me. Maybe I should just go away.

Sorry, but I am really disgusted by this.

6

Bear in mind, kp_72110, that thread was started very soon after the news that she’d been found. Very little information was available at the time.

A major function of this board is the discussion of rumors and the dispelling of unfounded ones.

Don’t leave the board. Have a nice cup of tea instead.

7

What Demostylus said. kp_72110, I’ve been in that thread. What I saw there was a frank discussion about the public’s reaction to the family’s reaction, with quite adequate refutation of some people’s doubts, including explanations as to why they perceive something to be “odd” . Your opinion that the thread itself is somehow immoral is noted, but how you reach it seems to be just a reflex reaction.

The Chicago Reader and the Admins are the judges of that.

8

Actually, even the “Elizabeth Smart prolly agreed to her kidnapping and wanted to have sex with the guy and the family’s in it for the movie rights” crew are fairly reasonable compared to what I’ve seen on other discussion boards. Frex, the Fray on Slate. God knows what they are saying on the Free Republic – probably that Bill Clinton masterminded the kidnapping and everyone involved is a political dirty trickster.

I have been arguing that Smart and her family are probably innocent victims based on the fact we know now, but I find the OP’s outrage kinda overblown. There IS a certain cadre on SDMB who seem to always feel that whenever a woman is raped or kidnaped, she somehow brought it on herself, and that whenever someone is accused of a crime they’re guilty, and why don’t we punish just about everyone for just about everything that ever happened? Some of them are ideological bigots, but there’s also some honest ignorance mixed in there, and the best way to fight ignorance isn’t to yell at the ignorant, however annoying they may be.

9

Just wanted to say that I find it v.v.c. that someone with the screen name Evil Captor keeps weighing in on this.

(No offense meant. Your above post, along with the ones you’ve made in the linked thread, is right on.)

10

kp_72110, please don’t simply “go away.” I understand your frustration and anger. But people need to come to terms with these things. It’s perfectly natural to want to know exactly what happened in this tragedy; just as it’s perfectly natural to defend the actions of a shocked and bereaved family.

You seem like a sincerely caring individual, which (IMHO) is a damn good thing. It’s okay to be angry (frankly I am too, mostly at this nutcase Mitchell). But in order to understand the situation, it is necessary to know the truth. That does not in any way diminish the sympathy I (or anyone else) may feel for the victim, Elizabeth Smart. And there is no doubt here that she was the victim.

Often times people need to know the details in order to understand the true nature of evil. I know I do. It helps to make sense of brutal actions, and hopefully to prevent them from happening in the future. It is, I think, a good way of fighting back – and, IMO, a virtuous purpose of this board. The greatest weapon we can have is knowledge – for ourselves, and our children.

Your passion is greatly appreciated, and I sincerely hope that you will continue to post here with the same noble fervor.

11

I use the name Evil Captor because I am the author of the Evil Captor rules, which were inspired by the Evil Overlord rules. The Evil Captor rules are for movie and television villains who have captured or kidnapped a damsel in distress. All in good consensual fun, in other words. I can’t link to them because there are some R-rated rules for R-rated movies, but if you do a google search the top three hits will lead you to it.

I’ve got no problem at all condemning real-world evil captors.

12

Well, I figured it was something like that! Just proves that on a long enough timeline, anything can become ironic.

13

aside from a few sarcastic remarks made and a general recognition that SOME PEOPLE still have questions AS DID THE POLICE this is my imput and I quote:

"Hopefully, it is/was just what it is supposed to be and she’ll be fine and the family will adjust and life will go on. The kidnapping bastard…damn good thing he’s not in Texas (for his own sake anyway) "

He deserves castration and time with the general population in prison while he awaits a spot on death row.

BTW…you are wrong regarding debate topics and there will always be “assholes” with whom you disagree. Calling them names and burying your head in the sand is no way to fight ignorance. Plus, what if some of their concerns are legitimate and nobody cared. Is it so inconceivable to you that there may still be more to the story than meets the eye?

Get with the program…don’t leave because you don’t agree w/ everyone.

14

Sorry that upsets you, but I stand by my opinion that Mr. Smart is fucking CREEPY, and his refusal to allow his daughter to go to therapy is…borderline abuse in my humble opinion.

15

What kp is railing against is the people who’ve accused Elizabeth Smart of running away with her lover and those who’ve accused Mr. Smart of molesting/raping his daughter.

Of course they don’t have any proof of any of those accusations being true, but they made them anyway. And they made them in such a manner as to say, essentially, “Well, I got no proof but it’s probably true because they family/dad/daugher is {insert noun or adjective} and, since I don’t like {whatever it was you inserted earlier}, it just has to be true.”

kp’s reaction is understandable. Those making those accusations against which kp railed are jerks.

16

Where did he say he wouldn’t allow her to go to therapy? That’s pretty fucked up.

I’m going to say I find the situation somewhat suspicious, but I’m not going to make any accusations-yet.

However, for the OP-please. This sort of thing is really mild. If you react to something like this the way you have, your future here will not be pleasant.

The SDMB: NOT for the Thin-Skinned.

17

I don’t have a cite right now (hunting on google news) but I heard on a talk show over the weekend that Ed Smart said at one of his four billion press conferences that they were going to deal with her nine month abduction and possible rape via God and the Family.

Sounds reasonable. Don’t come cryin’ to me when she goes berzerk someday.

18

Stop telling kp not to leave.

If he or she is going to whine and call for the closing of threads every time s/he doesn’t like the content, then it’s going to get very old very quickly.

If you don’t like the fact that you might have to read opinions that are repugnant to you, then don’t join a message board.

19

I have always said that Ed Smart seems creepy and the rest of his family comes off a little bizarre, HOWEVER, being odd does not equal having some responsibility or agenda behind your daughter’s kidnapping.

I read the GD thread and was totally disgusted by the outrageous assumptions and general ignorant talking out of asses.

I live in Utah and have had this case in front of me from day one. At this very moment I am looking out my office window onto Elizabeth’s neighborhood about 3 miles away. If it wasn’t for the trees I could see her house clearly.

My kids and I were involved in searching for her in the canyons. I do not know her family but I do know people who do. A good friend of mine works at the Deseret News with her uncle (who BTW, took the photos of the family that have been distributed). I have never heard ANYTHING but complimentary impressions of the family from those who know them personally. If anything, they were too trusting and maybe a little bit too naïve. Hardly a rare trait with the LDS people living in Salt Lake City.

I have seen Emmanuel and his wife many times on the city streets and near the shelters (I work as a homeless veterans counselor). I have a friend who was at the infamous party in Salt Lake City. He said that the two women were obviously submissive to Emmanuel and did not speak or make eye contact with anyone.

I was raised LDS although I haven’t followed the religion for 30 years. Living in Utah I am surrounded by the LDS church. Most of my neighbors, co-workers, and family are members of the church. I am disgusted by the hateful comments I have read regarding the Mormons. For the most part, they are a very gentle and kind people whose biggest fault is naïveté and trustfulness.

Elizabeth may be 15 years old, but she has lived a sheltered life in an LDS family setting. It is very understandable that she could have been so easily influenced. She was far from a streetwise 15 year old. She didn’t answer to search teams because she couldn’t. As far as I know, it hasn’t been release to the public as to why she couldn’t answer but there has been assumptions that drugs, weapons, and gags may have played a part.

Her little sister didn’t “suddenly” recognize this guy 8 months later. Back in October she told her parents that she remembered his voice being soft like the guy who worked on their roof. Also, the reason she didn’t go to her parents for 2 ½ hours after the kidnapping was that she was a scared shitless little girl.

She was kept in the mountains above her home for two months. This wasn’t “in her neighborhood” but mountain terrain filled with deep canyons, rocks, trees, and thick brush. It is completely understandable how search teams missed her. We don’t know yet what was done to her over those two months in the mountains to gain control over her mind and reports say that she didn’t surface in public until Emmanuel had full control. This would explain why she didn’t try to escape when other people were around.

Also, they left Utah and spent the winter in California. They weren’t “under the SLC police’s nose” as implied. In fact, they had just arrive back into Utah when they were spotted and arrested.

Elizabeth and her family are victims. Bashing her mannerism hours after her ordeal ended is unfair and cruel. In spite of her appearance, she is NOT okay and may never be okay. How dare anyone accuse her and her family for smiling too hard or taking too many photos or not acting the way you feel they should act. From what I have heard from a reliable source, Elizabeth isn’t adjusting easily. She isn’t smiling like she just won a gold medal. Their life will be hell for a long time.

She wasn’t forced into playing the harp but encouraged gently by her family in an attempt to bring her back to her old life. From what I understand, her comments to her father were made jokingly. I saw Ed Smart in a recent interview specifically say that it will take a lot of love, time, and therapy for the family to recouperate. I am curious to know if a statement of his was taken out of content by the press.

Unless you have experienced the trauma this family has gone through, it is extremely unfair to place your personal judgments on them.

20

I have heard him say this many times with the inclusion “and therapy for the entire family”. AFAIR, the little sister has already been in counseling.