[QUOTE=Southern Yankee]
Since Ichiro is listed, I’ll assume he’s eligible and vote for him because he’s one of the most exciting, amazing and fundamentally excellent players I’ve seen.
[/QUOTE]
Anyone who has ever played a single game in right field in the history of the major leagues, who has not been elected on one of the five previous ballots, is eligible.
Ruth
Aaron
Clemente
Robinson
Kaline
Gwynn
R. Jackson
Ichiro
P. Waner
Ott
I was definitely referring to Barry, and I have no idea why I thought he was relevant to the conversation. 
In retrospect, you’re right that gonzomax was probably referring to Bonds the Elder – even though gonzomax himself voted for him.
My mistake! Thanks, kevja.
Missed the edit window, so I’ll add:
It’s an even stranger criticism of Bobby Bonds, come to think of it, to say that he “decided to make home runs his only contribution” and stopped stealing bases when he got older. Bonds stole 34 bases in his Age 33 season (and got caught 23 times, so he was probably hurting the team by running as much as he did), 15 bases in his Age 34 season (against 5 times caught stealing, and in only 86 games, and compared to only 5 home runs!), and 5 bases in 42 games in his strike-shortened Age 35 season…after which he retired! Not sure how he could be said to have made home runs his only contribution at any point in his career.
[QUOTE=Gadarene]
In retrospect, you’re right that gonzomax was probably referring to Bonds the Elder –
[/QUOTE]
If he was, he’s still wrong, and it makes even less sense. Bobby had exactly two seasons with more home runs than stolen bases.
kevja, I’m not confusing them, at least.
ETA, damn, it must have taken me a long time to type that!
[QUOTE=Boozahol Squid, P.I.]
Come on… corner outfielders aren’t defensive players. They’re there to smack the ball hard,
[/QUOTE]
It wasn’t a rebuke. I didn’t consider defense at all, so I was curious about those that did.
My own ballot:
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
Frank Robinson
Mel Ott
King Kelly
Roberto Clemente
Paul Waner
Sam Crawford
Al Kaline
Reggie Jackson
I was not wholly thrilled with leaving out Tony Gwynn, but he finished 11th in my personal list, and that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
At least for me, defense matters; if it didn’t, Roberto Clemente would likely have slipped off the ballot. Defense isn’t as important in RF as it is at, say, short, but it obviously does matter. Someone’s gotta catch the fly balls and make the throws, and some guys do it better than others.
A King Kelly sighting!
Without looking at anyone else’s list until after I hit “submit”, here are my choices, with the names of players I have seen at the stadium or in live broadcasts bolded, and earlier stars listed based on reputation:
Henry Aaron – held the all-time home run record for over thirty years, and is still the “real home run king” in many fans’ minds
Roberto Clemente – great combination of offense and defense
Sam Crawford – because he played during the deadball era, his career marks for triples and inside-the-park homers will likely remain the major-league standards in perpetuity
Tony Gwynn – His .309 average in 1990 was his worst in any season in which he had enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting crown
Harry Heilmann – answer to the question “Not counting Ted Williams, who was the last American League player to bat .400 for a season?”
Al Kaline – “Mr. Tiger” is credited as the AL’s youngest batting king, as he was born Dec. 19, while earlier Detroit immortal Ty Cobb was a Dec. 18 baby
Wee Willie Keeler – Not only did he popularize the saying “hit 'em where they ain’t”, he took his own advice well enough to hit .341 over his career, and the hitting-streak mark (44 straight games) he set in 1897 lasted until 1941
Mel Ott – held the NL home run mark from 1937 until Willie Mays surpassed him in 1966, and led the New York Giants in round-trippers for 18 consecutive seasons
Frank Robinson – only MVP winner as both a National Leaguer and AL player, Triple Crown winner, still one of the top seven home run hitters – plus he made history as the first black manager in MLB
Babe Ruth – It’ll be really interesting to see if anyone leaves him off! Considering he was also a star pitcher, he’s my choice as the greatest baseball player ever.
King Kelly was the last name I eliminated, and I won’t be disappointed if he makes it into the SDMB Hall.
I trust that Al Simmons will appear on one of the other outfielder lists.
I don’t think King Kelly is a bad choice. I confess that when I first perused his numbers, I dinged him for insufficient Plate Appearances, but that was unfair. His career was perfectly long, but in those olden days teams only played 80-100 games a year.
Still, I’m okay leaving him off my list. He’s right in the mix with the bottom guys, but this is one of those cases where I ding him just a little bit (again, no fault of his own) for compiling his numbers against inferior competition. On my list he’d be #11 or #12, along with Heilmann.
[QUOTE=Sigmagirl]
Henry Aaron
Felipe Alou
Jose Canseco
Roberto Clemente
Rocky Colavito
Al Kaline
King Kelly
Roger Maris
Paul O’Neill
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Enos Slaughter
[/QUOTE]
Remember that only ten of your picks factor into the tabulation. Since you listed the names in alphabetical order, Robinson and/or Slaughter won’t count unless you eliminate one or two of the choices above them. Do you wish to amend your ballot?
[QUOTE=Frank]
If he was, he’s still wrong, and it makes even less sense. Bobby had exactly two seasons with more home runs than stolen bases.
kevja, I’m not confusing them, at least.
ETA, damn, it must have taken me a long time to type that!
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I’m glad you’re not confused. But you sound like you putting a rip on Bobby Bonds, yet you pu him on your list ( as a “sentimental” choice).
What’s up with that?
And, btw, he’s my “homer” pick on this list, so I can relate.
Plus, he was pretty good.
[QUOTE=kevja]
Ok, I’m glad you’re not confused. But you sound like you putting a rip on Bobby Bonds, yet you pu him on your list ( as a “sentimental” choice).
[/QUOTE]
gonzomax said that Bobby turned to concentrating on homers; he never did. How was my comment a “rip”?
I just completely forgot to include Keeler’s name when I did my personal list. To be honest, his numbers are as impressive as Kelly’s and against better competition, so I’m dropping Kelly and adding Keeler.
Sorry, Gadarene. Kelly’s 11th on my list.
Sternvogel: I am of the understanding that Al Simmons was primarily a left fielder, so he will be named on that ballot (though, again, all ballots are open.)
Nothing wrong with that, although I don’t see too much to choose between Keeler and Heilmann. I guess you’re going for the speed?
Rick I would like to remove Bonds and replace with Heilman. I thought I went through all of them but I must have skipped him.
[QUOTE=Frank]
gonzomax said that Bobby turned to concentrating on homers; he never did. How was my comment a “rip”?
[/QUOTE]
eeks. sorry bud.
[QUOTE=Sternvogel]
Remember that only ten of your picks factor into the tabulation. Since you listed the names in alphabetical order, Robinson and/or Slaughter won’t count unless you eliminate one or two of the choices above them. Do you wish to amend your ballot?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry about my miscount. With great regret, I’m losing O’Neill and Slaughter. Thanks.
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
During Kalines career the Tigers finished in
!953 6th
then 6th,5th,5th.5th.4th,5th.4th,6th, 2nd (1961) , 4th.5th 4th.4th,3rd.2nd.1st (1972 2nd.
Not exactly a successful record in my opinion.
Kaline played in the playoffs in 1968, and 1972. That is all.
[/QUOTE]
Gonzomax, I’ve got a real kick in the ass for you. Well, not a real one, or even a fake one, but a metaphorical one:
I just signed onto Bill James’s website, and (it’s pretty good, if you’re a baseball/stats freak like me) one of the features is a “fans ask Bill questions.” One of the questions I happened to find was, basically, “which teams finished very close to a pennant wihtout winning one,” and Bill listed ten franchises that rivalled the 1963-1971 SG Giants (who won over 90 games a year but never copped a flag).
His seventh choice was (and I quote) " 7. Detroit Tigers 1954 to 1959 (6). Al Kaline, Jim Bunning, Frank Bolling, Harvey Kuenn and Frank Lary. Like the other Tiger teams, this team started this era with low expectations, then had a series of not-exciting, not-really competitive seasons in which they at least met or exceeded expectations. They broke it up by trading away Kuenn after 1959, Bolling after 1960…"
He then goes on to say that the '61 Tigers through the 1967 team was very similar, winning a lot of games but never a pennant. (He also listed the 1976-1983 Tigers as having 8 consecutive seasons as his #2 “pretty good year, maybe next time” team, and further listed the 1921-27 Tigers–okay, that may have been before your time.)
Considering that James listed only a dozen or so teams in all of MLB history, and four of them were Detroit squads, it seems you have less to bitch about than almost anyone on earth–though I know that won’t put even the smallest bar to your bitching.
Sorry to keep making this irritating point, but this is a kind of Marshall McLuhan moment for me, and I couldn’t let it pass.
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Gonzomax, I’ve got a real kick in the ass for you. Well, not a real one, or even a fake one, but a metaphorical one:
I just signed onto Bill James’s website, and (it’s pretty good, if you’re a baseball/stats freak like me) one of the features is a “fans ask Bill questions.” One of the questions I happened to find was, basically, “which teams finished very close to a pennant wihtout winning one,” and Bill listed ten franchises that rivalled the 1963-1971 SG Giants (who won over 90 games a year but never copped a flag).
His seventh choice was (and I quote) " 7. Detroit Tigers 1954 to 1959 (6). Al Kaline, Jim Bunning, Frank Bolling, Harvey Kuenn and Frank Lary. Like the other Tiger teams, this team started this era with low expectations, then had a series of not-exciting, not-really competitive seasons in which they at least met or exceeded expectations. They broke it up by trading away Kuenn after 1959, Bolling after 1960…"
He then goes on to say that the '61 Tigers through the 1967 team was very similar, winning a lot of games but never a pennant. (He also listed the 1976-1983 Tigers as having 8 consecutive seasons as his #2 “pretty good year, maybe next time” team, and further listed the 1921-27 Tigers–okay, that may have been before your time.)
Considering that James listed only a dozen or so teams in all of MLB history, and four of them were Detroit squads, it seems you have less to bitch about than almost anyone on earth–though I know that won’t put even the smallest bar to your bitching.
Sorry to keep making this irritating point, but this is a kind of Marshall McLuhan moment for me, and I couldn’t let it pass.
[/QUOTE]
Actually for a decade or so the Tigers were competing for best team overall. The big diff is Kaline got 2 chances to perform in the world series venue. He was afforded scant chance to get on the big stage. The one that made Nettles and Brook over rated. forever. A spectacular series ingrains the performance into millions of brains . Kaline in his prime would have become a fan favorite. He played the game the right way. He remains under appreciated.