How does that do anything to help me? I’m trying to make sure that Holland doesn’t fall into French hands while not vacating Ruhr myself. If you and I cooperate here we can ensure he gets nothing and we gain position. Otherwise we’re reduced to playing guessing games while France gets the chance to either dig in, or if he gets lucky, actually gain another unit. Remember, France has 6 units right now to your 4 and my 5. If he gets 7 AND we don’t gain position we’re fucked.
Okay, I grok this angle…
Bullet point by bullet point:
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I think either you or Austria will keep Venice out of his hands this year. I don’t think he can afford to try for Tuscany (Mar-Pie-Tus shuttle) without risking either losing Burgundy or Belgium. Thus worries about a build gained at Italy’s expense are probably unfounded, for the moment.
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With a sure fleet build I’ll be able to better race to the Med, 2 fleets supporting each other, than I would with just one. Either that or I’d be able to put pressure on Brest at some point next year with one fleet while the other races on to the Med.
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But yes, him in the Channel would allow him to cut that fleet off. Okay you’re convincing me. Lemme think about it a bit more before I go to bed.
Okay if I presume a bounce in Holland with my attempted convoy, it’s status quo for another go for St. Pete in the spring, which (with F Sweden toast, and thus no possible cut) I can support with A Nor, followed by a convoy into Hol or Bel in the fall, while it’s warp 9 for F Nwg towards Iberia and beyond. You build A Kie, and with a fleet in Hel to back up Holland. I threaten either Brest, Spain, or Portugal, and I might get lucky there too. Does this agree with your reasoning?
I’m worried he’ll gain Holland or slide into Ruhr/Mun. If you don’t bounce him, or gain the unit yourself, I’ll have to slide up. If I slide up from Mun to Ruhr I’ll have to defend Mun from Tyr. He can bounce me wherever he wants or nowhere at all. Essentially he’ll get to pick and choose where he wants my units. That troubles me.
I suppose he might presume that Holland will be defended and therefore go to ENG but that’s not something I can count on. Really I’m just hoping we can take the initiative instead of just reacting to him.
A Fleet build in London will be wholly occupied with a French F Eng. The only way you can get around him will be by going around the north. If you push him out from the East with Nth he’ll just retreat his way up the Coast of England towards Liv. It’ll be a pain in the ass.
It’s a pickle. If you have another gameplan I’m all ears. I’m just trying to see what we can predict for a few years from now as opposed to whats the simplest and most safe right now.
That’s pretty much where my head was at. And this allows me to keep my Tyr Army in play in Italy and confound France from the south as opposed to leaving that to the Austrians and Italians to sort out.
If France say’s fuck it and goes to Eng then you get Hol, build a fleet in Lon and with the F in NAT you can out flank him anyways. From there it’ll be easy to push him out of Belgium and Burgundy in consecutive turns.
Okay you sold me. Changing orders…
Good deal. Didn’t think I’d have to sell so hard to convince someone to let me support them into one of my own SCs. 
@France
Suggestion:
F Belgium - English Channel
A Burgundy - Paris
A Marseilles - Burgundy
A Picardy - Belgium
A Piedmont - ??? (worth trying for Tuscany maybe)
A Spain - Marseilles
Gains nothing, but leaves you in a better position to defend the mainland attack next year?
Yeah, I’m sure.
Given the current SDMB issues I have sent verification for moves received today.
Please remember to send your final set of moves in by the deadline.
HAVOC ACROSS EUROPE. STOP.
FLEETS AND ARMIES DESTROYED. STOP.
ITALY ON VERGE OF COLLAPSE. STOP.
So, here we are in Autumn 1903
Final Moves
Austria:
A Vie-Gal - OK
A Bud [s] A Vie-Gal - OK
A Rom [s] A Ven-Tri - OK
A Ven-Tri - OK
F Alb-Adr - BOUNCE, DISLODGED
England:
F Norwegian Sea-North Atlantic - OK
F North Sea-Holland - OK
F Barent’s Sea-St. Pete - BOUNCE
A Norway SUPPORT F Barent’s Sea-St. Pete - CUT
France:
F Belgium - English Channel - OK
A Burgundy - Ruh - BOUNCE
A Marseilles - Bur - BOUNCE
A Picardy - Bel - OK
A Piedmont - Tus - OK
A Spain - Gas - OK
Germany:
F Bal - Swe - OK
F Den S F Bal - Swe - OK
A Ruh S A Nor - Hol - VOID
A Tyr - Pie - OK
A Mun - Bur - BOUNCE
Italy:
F Ion - Alb - OK
F Adr S F Ion-Alb - OK
A Ven - Tri - BOUNCE, DISLODGED
Russia:
A Galicia - Silesia - OK
A Rumania Hold - OK
F Sevastopol Supports A Rumania - OK
A St Petersburg Hold - OK
F Sweden - Norway - BOUNCE, DISLODGED
A Ukraine - Warsaw - OK
Turkey:
A Bul-Ser - BOUNCE
A Gre-Ser - BOUNCE
F Bla-Rum - BOUNCE
F Aeg-Ion - OK
Please check to make sure you are happy with the moves.
I require retreats from
Austria: F ALB
Russia: F SWE
Italy: A VEN
**DEADLINE FOR RETREATS IS FRIDAY 6TH AUGUST AT 20:00 GMT **
(SDMB Permitting)
Omni, here’s why I did what I did (which resulted in the #3 outcome below). Obviously I overestimated Russia-read on:
Possible outcomes, in order of desireability-all assume F NWG goes to the N Atl (except for #4) which was the ultimate aim of all this as discussed last night:
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Convoy the army, get Holland. However, as I discovered after I logged off last night, this carries the risk of either #5 or #7, so I surmised that abandoning Norway with my army would not be a good thing to do, with only one unit left in the north to cover it. Wish I had stuck with it of course…
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Status quo-bounces all around (in which case it wouldn’t have mattered which unit moved to Hol). I assumed that when Tristan logged on this morning, he’d go “Oh S***!” and immediately order the bounce and the cut, not risking a 3-on-2 on Belgium next spring. This way, I get the outside fleet in motion while still keeping the army as a convoy threat, I DON’T risk the loss of Norway, you get Holland protected like you wanted, and I still have a shot at St. Pete next year.
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{{What actually happened}} The fleet does make it to Holland. I discounted this possibility, given France’s reaction to our discussion as I said in #2. Yes, the fleet is inferior to the army, but I figured that we can cross whatever bridge later, and it still presents an effective 2-on-1 on Belgium (A Ruhr-Bel), with a cut from London, after which I could perhaps move the fleet back to sea ASAP.
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My original plan. I was going to do a self-bounce in Norway, which according to the rules would prevent any retreats there. Would of course run all the longer-term risks you outlined last night.
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The army makes it to Holland, but at the cost of losing Norway. I realized this in bed last night right after I logged off that Russia could abandon Sweden and give himself a shot at Norway, with support from St. Pete, which was no longer being attacked and thus cut. Well 1 out of 2 ain’t bad…
I disliked giving Russia a fleet in my rear, and my not getting a build, and not making him disband something, and I couldn’t afford to hope that he would just hold. Well, he did. -
He reads my mind, and moves to the North Sea. With that fleet up there, I would have a royal pain in a sensitive spot. I doubted he would do that, as otherwise it would be a futile gesture (bounces don’t cut convoys).
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The army gets convoyed, bounced, and then dislodged out of Norway. I am forced to disband something. The least desireable outcome of them all. But if I voiced my concerns in open press, Tristan would know what’s up and perhaps occupy the channel anyway (as he did) and let me have a fleet in Holland, or even take a shot at the North Sea. I also honestly surmised that you would, figuring that the support would be cut (as it was), would take a shot at Burgundy instead, something you don’t want to announce to the entire world. That would have worked too…
So I figured we’d get #2 either way, #3 at the worst, while if I went with the convoy I’d risk #5 or even #7. We got #3, which isn’t the worst outcome by any stretch. Belgium is toast next turn, and I got my fleet sailing into his rear, tho he can now cover that (and apparently intends to, as Portugal is now vulnerable). And I see you snuck into Piedmont-jolly good. 
In any event I hope I sufficiently justified the moves I made.
Note, if there was a standoff in Trieste the Austrian F Alb cannot retreat there, and hence has no retreat available.
Checking the rest of the board, looks like Russia is coming after your rear, so perhaps A Mun staying put was a good thing. I have no effin’ idea what Italy was trying to do, and now, the Turkish Navy is on the move. We’ll talk some more after the retreats and builds.
Cat, you have an error it seems in:
A Rom [s] A Ven-Tri - OK
A Ven-Tri - OK
Should be Tri-Ven, right? If so no retreats are possible in the direction of the attack which dislodged it, hence Italy’s army is toast. No, it could go to Tyrolia.
I gotta say, I’m pretty annoyed. If you’d have done what we agreed we’d be able to crack France. Now, while we’ll gain Belgium, we have absolutely no leverage to get his ass out of Burgundy.
Fucking wonderful.
There was no stand off in Trieste. The Austrian units vacated the space with support, he can retreat there if he wants. Though a disband may end up being ideal anyways.
It’s been reported wrongly, then. And of course a refusal to retreat allows it to rebuild as an army.
Did you even read what I wrote? You rather Russia, now breathing down your neck, not have to disband something because he got Norway, with a fleet up there which could seriously prance around behind my lines? Were you counting on Russia being a bit obtuse and not supporting himself into Norway (a support is just a hold with something extra added, after all)? Perhaps next turn I’ll just announce to the board what every single one of my moves will be… <sheesh>
And I’ll note that you could have gotten him out of Burgundy this turn, as long as we’re doing some Monday morning cornerbacking. Yeah, we got that pesky fleet in the Channel (something I tried to control, tho it was an arguably sound move by Tristan).
<deep breath> You’ve apparently played this game long enough to know just how complex all the variables and permutations can be. I tried, a la the Prisoner’s dilemma, to find the right combination of moves which would maximize my gains while minimizing my potential losses, keeping in mind all the interpersonal stuff too and the open press aspect of this game. If one guessed right every single turn it’d be kind of boring, wouldn’t it?
We are still in a good position, but it could certainly be worse. Let’s stop blaming each other and work on next year.
[Now I remember why I stopped playing this game for several years.]
He can’t rebuild diddly-only two centers left.