Please elaborate. Specifically, who benefits and how?
I would assume the Chicago Reader staff are the doctors / detectives / similar roles, no? I really hope we have someone with investigative capacities and that said capacities include finding out a player’s alignment, otherwise we’re screwed…
Quite right…but unless someone wants to step and say “I disagree, and I’m going to respond that same way from every one of my accounts”, it’s pretty much all we’re got right now.
Anyway, here’s my wild-ass guesses/talking points/random thoughts/data points for later evaluation:
[ul]
[li]Very powerful roles, only one or two in the game: Becil Madams, Ned Gotti, Terry[/li][li]Power Roles: Administator, Moderator[/li][li]Multiple players have these roles: Members and Charter Members[/li][li]I’m lumping together Guest, Junior Mod, Celebrity, Mafia Player, Feuder, Politico and SDSAB in a category I call “meaningless names added to take up space in the potential roster”. No more than one or two are actually in the game.[/li][li]I don’t believe we have a “Technician” – Terry is the Technician, isn’t he?[/li][li]I don’t believe the “Hacker” is necessarily scum. Very well could be, but that’s a very loose term.[/li][li]In all likelihood, Troll, Sock Puppet and Jerk are scum. Yes, there could be a pro-town Jerk, or a PFK Sock Puppet, but I’ll lean towards these three being the scum. Outside chance that Pit Dweller is one of them as well.[/li][li]Along with them, it seems we have at least semi-confirmation that Mark Wit is scum.[/li][/ul]
Also keep in mind that (based on opening flavor) there at least 3, possibly 4 factions in the game. Town, Mafia, and 2 others. They might be working together (like SK and backup), or it might be a two separate factions, like a SK and a Survivor. Mafia are catchable, but individual roles are a pain to catch, since there’s nothing stopping them from just being as townie as possible.
I’d like to point out that speculating on the make up of the roles is probably not beneficial to the town right now. It runs the risk of power roles slipping and saying too much, and gives the scum some ideas of what is claimable and what is not.
Um…that is useful. Very useful, in fact. Actually, considering that we’re only a couple hours into the first day, that’s enough for a vote for me (beats random voting)
Ban Rapier42
It could just be that the scum could talk during the day.
O mighty Og, are the scum allowed to talk during the day?
Worth a shot.
Snipped and bolding mine.:eek:
You too. Seriously, please elaborate. How exactly is it useful, and to whom?
In order for the game to work right, we need to get discussion started. The more evidence we have, the easier it is to sort the scummy from the townie. Day 1, though, there’s not too much to talk about. So almost any topic (with the exception of against the rules stuff, fluff, and metagamey stuff) is definitely a good thing. This is the basic principle behind random voting as well (though I think it’s better to have a shaky reason than no reason at all on day one).
How does that statement relate to your vote? Rapier has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town. You claim to want discussion, but immediately vote on someone who disagrees with your choice of subject.
How do you feel about Hal and Jsexton? They also expressed a similar concern.
I think it is weird how you and NaturalBlondChap don’t seem to have any reservations about the topic.
I’m not to keen on the “random vote”-strategy. But I have been thinking about a random-lurker-vote-strategy for this game.
If the Days are to end without any notice… I don’t like the thought of my vote being wasted.
It still early in the Day - so I’m not going to vote straight away. But I just might do a random-lurker-vote with in the next 24 hours…
what’s a PFK?
What else do we have to go on? Get the random votes in, then the fun starts, we get wagons, people derailing wagons etc and we have something to work with tomorrow.
Ban Hero from Sector 7G
for no particular reason
lol I just don’t believe that scum ever DO a random vote - they know to well how to place a vote!
So IMHO random votes are for town and making it easy for us to be pushed in the directiong scum wants us to go.
But if JSEXTONis right and we might have 3 (or even 4) factions in this game I would believe random-votes are not that bad for town.
And the vote generates more discussion–you disagree with it. Why? What will Rapier say? etc.
And how could it help the scum? All we’re trying to do is figure out which roles go where. If someone slips doing that, that sort of slip would have happened pretty much regardless of topic. If you think there’s a more important topic, what? It’s not like these are immobile assumptions–if someone claims Administrator or Guest, we’re not going to automatically assume that person is town–even if they are that role.
Hal hasn’t expressed that concern. And I disagree with Jsexton as well: it’s just that Rapier42 sounded scummier when he said that.
And I’m not buddying up with NaturalBlondChap either–I’m suspicious of him until inclined otherwise–but I think that he had an interesting idea and I ran with it. :shrugs:
Not really…here’s what I said:
Don’t focus so much on the “Quite right” as the “…but […] it’s pretty much all we’re got right now”.
“Playing For Keeps”. It stems from roles in the off-board Batman game which were neither town nor scum, but were rather trying to fill a third-party objective in order to get a win on their own.
And damnit…I was SO close!
Discussion is good. Discussion that leads to handing information to scum is bad. Voting to ban pedescribe is totally awesome.
This is what I’m basing that on, if it wasn’t clear:
I read that as town and mafia in the first paragraph, and two individual factions (possibly united, but probably not) in the second.
So, what do you think we could end up giving away to the scum? If we come to a consensus that, say, Charter Member is an unlikely role, the scum might avoid claiming it due to fears that it will look suspicious, or they might deliberately claim it to avoid a counterclaim. That we’ve determined it would seem to have no significant benefits for one side.
And as for power roles outing themselves–well, that could happen no matter what we talk about. I don’t see it significantly more likely from discussing which roles might be in the game than, say, piling onto a hapless Ned Gotti.
I’m not saying we’re going to find some magic answer if we pursue this line of thought. All I’m saying is that it’s suspicious for someone to close off various avenues of discussion and then dismiss the information aspect.
I suppose, though, that it could have been a rookie mistake. Alright. I’ll
Unvote Rapier42
for the moment.
Hurray, first post of the game and someone is already asking for my thoughts. 
I agree that the flexible Day length will put an interesting spin on things, but there’s a few things to keep in mind that we can use to our advantage. First, we have a definite lower bound. Second, we have no reason to believe that anyone has any information about the length of the Days.
To address the first point, we can remove most of the disadvantage to the town that is involved with an unsure Day length by treating the lower bound on the Days as the end of the Day. That is, on Day One, it’d probably be a good idea to have no unjustified votes after the initial 48 hour period. It would also generally be good to try to have votes from everyone by that period. After that, discussions can and should still be encouraged, but without knowing where the Day ends, we don’t have the “OMG, the Day ends in 2 hours and we need more votes”. Instead, we get the initial votes and continue discussion and let things changes as they will, because any sudden vote swing is as likely to get nipped early or allowed to swing back toward someone else as it is to stick and end quickly.
The second point is mostly related to finding scum. Scum won’t be able to push a poorly reasoned train or fail to respond to it because they’ll have no idea whether it will wash over or if they’ll have to remain silent and hope the Day ends quickly or risk looking like they were avoiding it if the Day goes long. Of course, it’s possible that the scum have a power that would give them that information, but I doubt it. Beside the fact that it’s VERY overpowered because they’d have a enormous amount of sway by being able to effect momentum of different votes swings to get them in a good place at the right time. OTOH, if they DO have a power like that, it may reveal itself through Perfect Information.
So, all in all, I think it’s neutral at worst, and possibly in town’s favor at best.
You have no faith in our collective scum-finding abilities through vote and text analysis? For shame.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I’m against random voting in general. It can be useful for jump starting discussion, but we seem to have that going now.
The bad thing about random voting is that it leaves no justification. We need players to give reasons why they vote. First, when you’re dead and turn up Town, we can go back and see what you were thinking. We’ll get the perspective a player we can trust. Second, if you’re dead and turn up scum, we can try to figure out what manipulations you were up to.
So, please, always clearly state your reasons for voting.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I think this setup does not lend itself to a mass claim. We have both vanilla and pro-Town power roles, so a truthful reveal by Townies hurts us a lot. I don’t think it’s worth it for the lies we’ll be forcing the scum to tell.