This is something I intended to cover in my last post and it completely slipped my mind by the time I clicked submit.
I think we have to be very careful about how the Day ending applies to tells. For instance, I DO think it’s a pro-town move to vote early with this rule set, but that’s not always possible. The reason I warn is I don’t want this to turn into a meta-gamey “he didn’t vote, therefore, it’s anti-town” when the explanation could simply be that the Day was very short and fell on a time when his access to the thread is limited to non-existent.
That said, I have enough faith in the sportsmanship of the players here not to abuse the potential meta-game aspect of the rules of this game that that shouldn’t be an issue. Instead, I’d simply say that I generally agree, and that a failure is anti-town, but it doesn’t mean it’s scum motivated.
And I think you interpreted this the right way - and with 3 or 4 factions and the Day ending without notice - I do see that a random-vote on Day 1 might be okay.
[Just kidding] Unless of course SANTO claims mason out of the blue [/ Just kidding]
I will have to say this is very dangerous. These various roles, particularly with no potential power information, simply act as a list of names. I think having any preconceived notions about what roles may or may not have powers, may or may not be pro-town, etc. provides extra information to the scum and could lead to a scum being able to fairly safely claim his role if it’s one that looked pro-town, or make it more difficult for a pro-town player to claim if his role looks bad.
That said, there are certain names that do lend themselves to certain roles like the moderators or SDSAB do with masons, but that doesn’t mean that either role is in this game, that they’re necessarily a role that’s immediately obvious.
Instead, I think we should treat these like any other name. They’re essentially color, but no role-claim is complete without it. Thus, if someone makes a claim about a role that contradicts someone else we can use it as evidence, otherwise, it’s pretty much useless.
Let’s make things interesting in here, why don’t we?
I’m Terry, the board’s doctor.
I kind of think that’s a misspelling (the doctor part, not the Terry part), because my powers seem to align more with what Jerry, the board directors powers would be, and have nothing at all to do with what a Mafia Doctor would do.
My powers are not confirmable in any way I can see at this time. However, with more information, that might change. My powers have to do with being able to extend the length of the Day. However, there has to be a very precise game mechanism that happens in order for me to be able to extend a given Day. The old deadline and extension will not be announced publicly, hence the reason my powers aren’t really confirmable. The only way I can think they would be is is somebody else knows when the day was supposed to end, and the Day didn’t end at that time.
I’m announcing now to give us a data point to start working off of, and because my power isn’t really powerful enough to effect the game directly (i.e. not investigative, protective, etc.), so it seems me giving a data point will be more useful than holding this info back.
It’s not that it won’t lead to information about roles, it’s just that it’s not going to lead to significantly more role leakage than if we weren’t discussing it. I mean, look. Santo just claimed. He wasn’t in this discussion at all.
And I see that I’ve been massively sarnath’d by Santo. Can’t say I’m thrilled with this revelation, but so be it. The flavor seems in line with what jdavis does, keeping the board up longer.
But do you see why offering up unnecessary information is a bad thing? Assuming Santo is truthful, the scum now have solid information on whether Santo is worth killing.
I spent at least a good three to four minutes thinking about it, and if the scum think I’m worth killing, then it will (hopefully) protect some of our more powerful roles. I’m not too worried about it, especially since the mechanism I speak of probably won’t happen but maybe 20% of the time.
Hold up…let’s assume for the moment that scum do have this power, and know when day ends. You’re saying that this is neutral/good for town? Are you fricking kidding me? In order for Perfect Information Syndrome to stand out here, the scum would have to make the most blatant plays in the world. Anything less than a complete boneheaded move would have “plausible deniability” written all over it. After all, this would be a very overpowered ability – so much so that I’m guessing it’s not in the game – so all scum would have to do is not go overboard, and they could poke people into banning right before it was too late.
Hell, that thinking could be applied to any non-killing power the may have scum have – “It’ll show Perfect Information, so we’ll know they’re scum, so it’s good that they have this ability”. Don’t like it…
Without going into a whole lot of detail, since I’ve done it SO many times before, this is precisely the reason why I generally support the logic behind random votes. At worst, everyone goes to random.org and votes, and it’s complete noise. More likely, not everyone does, and thus a knowledgeless townie’s random vote is truly random, while a scum’s vote will necessarily not be random. Granted, it’s a very low signal to noise ratio, but there is information. Plus, it can act as a catalyst to get conversation started.
That said, I am more wary of a random vote in this game precisely because we don’t know if it will remain a random vote or not. Someone could random vote, intend to do a real one, and then the Day ends early and we’re stuck with a worthless vote. I’ll put more thought into this, but I imagine that by the time I’ve come to a conclusion, there will be enough information in the thread that a purely random vote is no longer justifiable.
I’m not sure if Santo’s claimed power really helps anybody all that much, truth be told, as long as there are voting scum out there and considering how you can’t really tell if somebody’s panic voting because they couldn’t access the boards for a day or if they’re panicked Town or sneaking Scum or etc etc etc. It seems kind of like a WIFOM factory.
First of all, cool - a role claim. I didn’t expect one of those less than 24 hours into the game.
Second, a prayer to Og: I have a question about the end of the Day. Does it end exactly 48 (or 72, or whatever) hours from the Day 1 post by mmouse9799, or will the almighty Og round up/down the time to the nearest hour (for administrative convenience)?
Third, no vote from me yet, but I’ll definitely make one before the 48 hours are up. Meanwhile, I am suspicious of Hero From Sector 7G and pedescribe for their responses to Rapier42’s posts.
Rapier42 only made 2 posts toDay. The first (post 196) was speculation about what the Jr. Mod role might mean. Afterwards, Boozahol Squid, P.I. said (posts 197, 198) that it’s too difficult to guess what the various roles do. Right after that, Zsofia said, “They [Jr. Mods] could be like insane cops. I’m not sure this line of thinking is useful, though, without additional information.” Rapier42 then agreed that he’s not sure either, but offered two things it might be used for later on (post 200).
In post 209, Hero From Sector 7G says, “Rapier has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town.” I don’t see where Rapier42 expressed any concerns, and find it suspicious that Hero From Sector 7G is putting words into Rapier42’s mouth.
Pedescribe also seems to misinterpret Rapier42’s post, and votes for him. He thinks that post 200 is an attempt to “close off various avenues of discussion,” but says it might have been a “rookie mistake” and unvotes. Again, to me it doesn’t look like Rapier42 tried to stop the discussion.
These sorts of comments always rub me the wrong way. Agreeing with someone is not necessarily “buddying up” with him. It’s the fact that you seemed compelled to distance yourself from him that I find curious. However, I’m not sure what to think of it at this point, especially since it’s been a while since I’ve played with you, but it’s a datapoint nonetheless.
But by having this discussion, we gain no information about which roles actually are potentially in the game or not, since it’s pure speculation. However, we provide information to the scum in terms of what we are and are not likely to believe is in the game.
For instance, it’s not beyond imagining that Ned Gotti is actually scum, but we come to a general concensus that he’s probably town. Thus, if that particular scum comes under fire, he knows he can safely claim that role.
Yes, but by having this discussion we’re enabling them to slip sooner and more easily. We’re also potentially putting them into a rough spot. For instance, what if a role that seems like scum to most of us is actually pro-town. If the person who has it participates, they either have to agree with everyone else to avoid giving away information and make a potential roleclaim later much more difficult, or go against what everyone else said and reveal information to the scum.
Discussing things is fine. However, at this point, with the available evidence, I cannot see how it benefits the town, but there is a possibility that it benefits the scum. Further, there are plenty of other avenues that we can pursue that will stimulate discussion without giving away information, like discussion about the setup.
I’m NOT saying the power isn’t town - but I could also see that power being something else… and if it is then claiming town and claiming the power seems like a clever move
I’m sorry, but I have to say I don’t see the logic here in this move. I would make a suggestion that you try to keep that which you left ambiguous unconfirmed. The precise value of killing you cannot be calculated without knowing whether or not you know the current deadline, what conditions are required to allow you to extend it, and by how much you can extend it.
However, I am willing to say that, as boneheaded as I think this is, that I also think that it’s unlikely to be scum motivated.
My phrasing was poor on my part. The “neutral/good” part was not in reference to this particular potential role, but to the unknown Day’s end. However, I do think that you underestimate how much knowledge of the Day’s end could show through. Sure, plausible deniability and all that, but really, if you saw someone put a lynching vote, or push for a lynch and the Day ends soon afterward (soon being relative, of course), it will look suspicious. Looking suspicious is often enough for some people to vote, or it’s enough for others to go back and do more investigation.
OTOH, a role like the one that Santo claimed could be precisely the kind of pro-town role used to balance this sort of power. Perhaps the scum do know the Day’s end, and push a lynch and get it successful, but then the Day gets extended unexpectedly, and it ends with a reversal and a lynching of the scum instead.
