I mostly wanted her to stress that he was willing to sacrifice safety for money because there is an argument to be made that he is a good businessman by getting the best deal.
Seconded. His campaign was circling the drain going in and given his temperament I honestly thought we might see him walk off or say an expletive or something.
It would be a fitting finale for this reality TV show.
Instead he held it together and I’d say he may have even won it: as measured by the bar of convincing people.
Here on the Dope, we are all pretty much fact-checkers by definition, so we know that much of what Trump said was pure bull, and the rest completely lacked specifics (e.g. what was he suggesting we do about Aleppo?). But to many people, especially on the right, they’ll lap it up.
I’m not Trump’s target audience - so I don’t know. But all the Republicans who were turned off by Trump’s tape on Friday, withdrawing their endorsements, and so on. Do you think Trump’s performance today will win them back?
I mean, maybe? He’s the same guy that he was before the tape, when the Republican politicians were all supporting him. Do they look at his sexual assault sideshow and threatening to jail his opponent, and get back on board? Trump didn’t really address his sexual assault comments. He just handwaved it off.
I don’t really think the GOP has any serious disagreement with Trump, they just wish he’d act more collegiate. So if he’s managed to halt the bleeding temporarily - does that get everybody back on board?
And even if it does - did Trump do anything tonight to appeal to people who are on the fence? Because appealing to his base his not going to get him 51% of the votes.
I doubt it. It kind of felt like running out the clock.
That’s bad logic. The fact that she could have proposed a bill doesn’t mean people would have voted for it, and it’s a waste of time to propose a bill if you can’t get people to vote for it.
It’s an attempt to turn things around while ignoring the point. It is Trump who took advantage of it, and it is Trump who has castigated others for not paying taxes. It is Trump who lost so much in an industry that’s hard to lose money, and it is Trump who proclaims to be a good business man.
It’s just a classic deflection. “Why didn’t you propose a law” can be used for anything someone has done that isn’t illegal or unconstitutional. The answer is always “it wouldn’t have passed, so I spent my time doing things that had a chance of passing.”
That was to make sure his core supporters don’t quit on him.
Agreed, and thought he would do this in the first debate. Had this been the first debate this would have been a bad night for Hillary. Trump needed to score then when he had 6 weeks worth of momentum. At this point he’s desperately trying to bail water out of a sinking ship, which he might have saved for now.
Definitely the worst part of her performance, and yet again, she has consistently failed to answer these kinds of questions well. Again and again she gives lengthy, wordy, meandering answers to questions that should frankly be answered with short, canned, boring responses. I think Hillary’s strength in debates – her courtroom lawyering – is also her weakness. Lawyers make ordinary folk squirm. She makes people uncomfortable when she responds to these kinds of questions with caveats and qualifications. I initially thought that maybe she hadn’t been working with her campaign team enough on this but it’s clear that this is how Hillary has chosen to deal with her email and other legal controversies. This is 100% Hillary, and this does in turn take us to another vulnerability, which is her periodic bouts of stubbornness and insularity. Trump left himself open for some digging, but Hillary also left herself open as well.
Trump looked like a goddamn stalking creep. The analogy of Trump being a silver-back gorilla is probably spot on in this respect.
Yeah, and I guess Hillary got thrown off her game tonight, which was probably the biggest achievement of Trump’s performance. Hillary rattled Trump early in the first debate and set the tone for the evening, and I felt like Trump kinda, sorta did that tonight. The difference is, for Donald, he didn’t really make his case for anyone who’s genuinely neutral or leaning but not quite committed to Hillary. In fact i think those leaning to Hillary are probably done dithering.
I think the substance was there, but the style, tone, and delivery weren’t. She’s just not very charismatic. As you say, I think Hillary scores when she is one on one with voters and members of the audience and can communicate empathy. And her very first interaction was good. But Trump got rough and that changed the tenor of things. To be fair (although I don’t want to be) Clinton also got rough. I knew when she talked about his fitness to serve that it was going to be a brawl. I think that she tried to poke him a bit as she did in the first debate, expecting first debate results, but Trump shoved back.
I thought Trump won the exchange on Obamacare simply by saying it was a disaster. The audience member who asked the question actually set up the tee and framed the question in such a way that there wasn’t much Hillary could do with it.
He succeeded in cranking up his angry base and he will make life uncomfortable for those in congress who fear losing the support of that contingent. But I don’t think he gained with anyone else.
Not a chance.
So tens of former supporters just dumped Trump on Friday and Saturday. They watch a debate on Sunday that, despite a few meme-worthy highlights, Trump again lost decisively according to polls. I’m guessing these same people - if they’re smart - also suspect with a better than 50% probability that there are probably more details of sexual misconduct that are perhaps even more explosive than this (there’s currently an actual civil lawsuit alleging sexual assault of a minor, and he is on tape essentially referring to his own daughter ‘a piece of ass’). What about his scowling, snarling, stalking debate performance would make anyone change their minds?
I mean, all the people who who withdrew their endorsements from Trump after the tape were just fine with Trump hiring Roger Ailes. I don’t actually believe any of those Republicans actually care about Trump’s sexual history (although they all care deeply about Bill Clinton, of course.)
Trump’s snarling and stalking and threatening to persecute his enemy - I mean, any rational person is going to see that as a turn off. But that’s what he’s been doing at his rallies all along. His fans love that shit. And I think the Republicans are more worried about his fans’ opinion than their own moral rectitude.
I don’t know. I guess the good news, is as a I said, rational people will see it as a turn off, and there’s still marginally more people who are rational than irrational. I think Trump will probably get the Republican support back, but I can’t imagine that he picked up anyone who wasn’t already riding his train.
Yes if he was running for businessman of the year, 2016, by the Hoboken Chamber of Commerce this would actually matter. But he’s not. He is running for president of the United States. Being a good businessman is irrelevant to being President of the United States.
See this is EXACTLY why Trump won that point on the debate
Clinton voted against it? He right.
Clinton voted for it? Then she should have said so then call him a little bitch that can’t get his facts right and mikedrop him.
Do you say the same thing when every single presidential candidate in living history campaigns on promises to do X when X cannot be done without the approval of Congress?
It’s a simple question: Hillary, if you are against this particular tax deduction (carried interest), what specific action have you taken in your “30 years of government service” to eliminate it?
She did say so. From the NPR transcript:
“I voted to close I think one of the loopholes he took advantage of when he claimed a billion dollar loss that enabled him to avoid paying taxes.”
And she called him a liar in a fantasy world all night.
Did u watch the whole debate? He was a cartoon character and he mumbled and stumbled all of his answers… gotta love the double standard: he didn’t crap himself! He totally won! She didn’t dive deep into policy on this and that, looked good for most of it, but yeah she totally lost because of that…
This election, and its obvious sexism and double standard, will be a huge topic and f discussion in the future…
You can endorse someone and then change your mind, but to then change your mind again? That’s just spinelessness. There’s no going back. Trump has lost those Republicans for good.
Can someone explain – as far as that possible – what the whole thing about Michelle not liking and bad-mouthing Hillary wa all about?
Trump was being his usual untruthful self.
Popping back over here real quick to say I’ve kindly requested this thread to be closed, given how the discussion continues to be divided. I AM NOT JUNIOR MODDING, but I will certainly take my own discussion of the debate to the other thread.
Now that Trump is threatening them, it’s going to make it more interesting.
Closed by request of the OP.