#3? Really? “Why didn’t you, the junior senator from NY, fix everything so I couldn’t take advantage of taxpayers” is a “BIG TRUMP POINT”?
I think Trump overall did a lot better than expected, particularly since a lot of people seem to be predicting/hoping for an epic meltdown. He leaked a little here and there while he was pacing around, but he survived and played some of his campaign greatest hits of attacks against Hillary regardless of the actual question, which placed her partially on the defensive for most of the night (right where he seemed to stay).
He’s the one who wants to renegotiate the national debt.
What do you expect one Senator to do?
Did she as Senator ever introduce, co-sponsor or vote for a bill to remove those loopholes? Honest question and if the answer is no then Trump is right.
I didn’t say he did know more than she, I said he APPEARED to. What criteria do you think most (ignorant) Americans vote on: facts that are never brought up in real political discourse or the reality show this campaign has become? It’s Don “The Situation” Trump vs “Real Housewife” Clinton.
Watching Giuliani try to spin the debate makes me miss Baghdad Bob.
That question looks like it will be very hard to answer in either the affirmative or negative. You can go to her official congressional website to see all of the bills and amendments she ever sponsored or co-sponsored. The names of the bills are not very descriptive and even the descriptions are very limited. The amendments don’t have titles.
But the closest I could find on a quick survey is located on page 4 and is listed as an amendment:
It is possible that she also voted for any number of bills on the issue but did not actually sponsor or co-sponsor them.
So you’re saying that unless she specifically tried to stop it, she was okay with it?
I recently got back in touch with an old high-school buddy, which I soon regretted doing, because while we did not discuss politics, he definitely fits the Trump-supporter profile. He’s a truck driver, and as far back as I remember, he’s always been “crushed by The Man.” Kept down by the Gubmint. And he’s still whining about how the system is keeping him down. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he’s a Trump supporter, especially after having taken a gander at his anti-Obama Facebook page. There are lots of guys like him too.
Well this is interesting. "Trump ally paid sexual assault victim critical of Clinton.
Wait what? I’m saying that Trump has a point that as Senator she could have taken steps as a legislator to try to close the loopholes by introducing, co-sponsoring or voting for a bill to close those tax loopholes. If she did not then he is right that she is all talk and no action on that specific point.
According to 538 the Loophole Trump probably used to avoid paying taxes was closed whole Clinton was a senator.
Scroll to 9:59 pm. Some more digging would have to be done to find the specific bill and her voting record on it. But it’s a start.
It’s HUGE! It’s the BEST, the ABSOLUTELY BEST, BIG LEAGUE POINT.
“Trump overall did a lot better than expected” == “didn’t projectile vomit invective and thinly veiled threats on a minute-by-minute basis”. Basically, the criteria for an acceptable performance from Trump was about the same as you’d hope from an eight year old at a wedding dinner.
“Rose Hill Rudy”
Stranger
I think both had some high and low points. I think when Trump brought up Bill’s indiscretions it did strike a nerve in Hillary and she along with her husband looked visibly uncomfortable and she was temporarily thrown off her game a little bit, going into it I thought she would bring up the audio of salacious comments of Trump a lot but she didn’t because I think it would have brought the spotlight back to her husband again. Honestly I think its fair game given that she stuck by her husband though not one, but multiple incidents with multiple women.
Trump was foolish to threaten Hillary with prosecution
Though worded badly Trump did bring up important points about Hillary’s campaign donors and paid speeches along with her judgment on classified emails.
Trump looked silly bringing up some post office remodeling or whatever he totally lost me there.
It was dumb of Trump to blame singlehandedly blame Hillary for America’s problems as though a lone Senator has the power to get any legislation they want passed.
I didn’t really buy Hillary’s logic about Honest Abe for her explanation about public and private positions that was disingenuous in my opinion.
Trump’s body language was awful and I think Clinton took a page from her husband’s playbook and did a good job really getting close, saying their names, and directly answering the audience’s questions directly to them, it really made her appear to care about their problems and made her more personable and human, while Trump just talked past them.
Hillary treaded lightly on the deplorable comment, I didn’t think her answer was so great, after calling them irredeemable but then saying her problem was really with Trump, not them.
I wish Hillary had pushed Donald a little more about buying Chinese steel but I guess they had to move to the next question.
I didn’t like the way Hillary threw the Russian thing at Trump as though he personally hacked the U.S. and that they want him to be elected.
I don’t know if anyone bought Hillary saying how strongly she feels about the 2nd amendment, but Trump didn’t respond to her points about Roe V Wade and marriage equality.
I think it was hard for Hillary to defend remarks by her husband about Obamacare, she said he clarified his statements but didn’t get specific, I’m still kind of bemused about the things Bill said, its leaving a mess for his wife to try and spin into some other statement and not what he actually said.
I think Hillary looked good talking about how much she cares about families and specifically children, going down the list of legislation she has passed, I think its pretty obvious how sincere she is about her care for our youth.
I think Trump did better than I expected, he survived which is all he had to do and grading on a curve he tied or maybe even got the better of Hillary a few times. Honestly I hope the questions in the third debate are entirely focused on specific policy and less on scandalous behavior.
If this happens, Trump will lose bigly. By building up the possibility that he was going to mud rassle tonight, he brought the whole thing down to his Jerry-Springer level. She’s better than that, but it gave him the upper hand. If it stays strictly on policy, he flop sweats his way through the bullshit and makes mistakes. He gets flustered, he goes rogue and then he goes all gutter snipe because that’s his knee-jerk reaction to being beaten.
I’d like to see the next debate go deeper into some foreign policy stuff, of which he knows nothing about. Talk about world leaders besides the five he knows, and force him to respond. Fluster him on her turf.
Her answer was basically incoherent, but it makes slightly (very slightly) more sense if you look at the original speech excerpt the public/private thing was taken from:
[QUOTE=Hillary Clinton Wall Street speech]
You just have to sort of figure out how to – getting back to that word, “balance” – how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today. That, I think, has probably been true for all of our history, and if you saw the Spielberg movie, Lincoln, and how he was maneuvering and working to get the 13th Amendment passed, and he called one of my favorite predecessors, Secretary Seward, who had been the governor and senator from New York, ran against Lincoln for president, and he told Seward, I need your help to get this done. And Seward called some of his lobbyist friends who knew how to make a deal, and they just kept going at it. I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.
[/QUOTE]
She doesn’t even really explain what she means by public/private positions in the speech itself. But having recently seen the movie, Lincoln orchestrates the re-introduction of the 13th amendment (abolishing slavery) for a vote in Congress but largely stays behind the scenes in lobbying individual congressmen, only focusing on a few individuals here and there himself and leaving most of the work to be done by somewhat shady intermediaries. Their job was to promise congressmen who lost re-election and were otherwise against the 13th amendment government jobs in exchange for voting for the 13th amendment in a lame duck Congress. In the movie, Lincoln obfuscated and (through intermediaries) lied to congressmen about Confederate representatives who were proposing peace talks in order for Congress to immediately pass the 13th amendment rather than wait for the rapidly-approaching victory in the Civil War to make the issue of abolishing slavery less imperative. The 13th amendment barely passes, largely due to Lincoln’s behind the scenes efforts.
When he said this kind of thing, more than once, my impression is that Trump doesn’t have a clue about how government works.
One junior senator offering a bill to close this loophole first of all wouldn’t get anywhere, but more importantly it would be meaningless outside of the broader context of tax reform. If you remember, everyone is for tax reform but no one does anything about it.
Really, criticizing her for this is like criticizing a senator in 1969 for not stopping Vietnam. It shows an extraordinary level of cluelessness. Now, either Trump, being a natural autocrat, actually thinks this is how it works or he is deluding his followers. Yeah, he can order something in his company (like no black accountants) but that isn’t the way government works.
I wanted someone to ask Hillary what happens when a Russian plane flies into her Syrian no fly zone.
Surprised Trump didn’t bring up her position on open borders from the leaked docs, unless I missed it.
Trump can hit Hillary on her numerous weakpoints. She has no good answers for e-mails, isn’t willing to defend trade deals, and she’s wobbly on the ACA. But Trump has nothing to offer. And if you stare into the Trumpster fire, the Trumpster fire also stares into you.
I’m confused, did they merge the threads? I am now not sure if I’ve read everything.
What I want to know is whether the media has yet reported on the obvious cheating that Hillary did by employing that small flying drone to convey messages between her and her team backstage while cleverly camouflaging it as a harmless fly?
Overall, I think it was a draw although Trump won in that he exceeded expectations while Hillary merely met hers. I think she missed a big opportunity when he lobbed the Chinese steel softball. If I were her, I would have said something like:
“Donald, you obviously know well that the Chinese are flooding the country with cheap poor-quality steel, since you used it in your buildings. I think the American public should look closely at the morals of somebody who would risk the safety of people who live and work in his buildings by using inferior steel simply to save a buck when he could have given up a little of his profit to buy quality American steel.”
(bolding mine)
[Mrs. Clinton did say that, in almost those exact words:
](Fact Check Second Presidential Debate: Hillary Clinton And Donald Trump Meet Again : NPR)
That link, btw, is to NPR’s complete transcript of the 2nd debate.