See if I return to YOUR church, then

The BBQ Pit
1

So, I went back to my parents’ for Easter, and went with them to church, even though they’ve changed churches since I left home, and I know absolutely no one there.

Well, apparently this service runs over 2 hours, and I didn’t feel like having to sit still and undistractingly for that long, so when they had that “greet someone” thing after the singing, I got up and just stayed up.

The pastor started making announcements, and then starts into his sermon. I was leaning against the back window, next to the main door. I was the furthest back of anyone in the place; you’d have to be outside to even see me or be distracted in any way.

Here’s my paraphrasing of the conversation I then had with Mr. Super Usher:

Super Usher: Do you need to find a seat?

Cardinal: No…

SU: Are you here with someone?

C: Yes…

SU: Could you find a seat?

C: You’re actually going to make an issue of this?

SU: Yes.

C: Why?

Su: We show respect when the pastor is talking.

C: By sitting down?

SU: Yes.

There was something else, I’m sure, that I don’t remember very well, but as I wheeled out the door in disgust, he was saying something about it being an “accountability issue”. Sure, dude.

I decided I could entertain myself more profitably by walking around this unfamiliar town for 45 minutes than by sitting and fuming at this guy, so I headed off. I then spotted a sign for a congregation of my own psuedo-denomenation meeting in another converted warehouse, so I caught the last 20 minutes or so of that service, and then walked around for a while before heading back.

The happy ending is that I then told this story to an assistant pastor, and he was very sympathetic, and said he would bring it up with the usher staff.

So, Super Usher: find some meaning in life besides dictating people’s lives on Sunday mornings. I’m sure Jesus was in the habit of making federal cases of who stood or sat and all the crying babies when he talked to crowds of thousands.

Right?

2

From the perspective of someone who has spent a little bit of time behind a pulpit (as a music minister, not a two-hour sermonizing droning pastor type) I have to say this much - having someone standing at the back of the sanctuary during a non-standing portion of the service can be terribly distracting, especially if you don’t know why they’re back there. They dominate your line of sight because they’re above everyone else in the place, except the ushers who you expect to be on their feet but are typically stashed away in places where they aren’t a distraction, and every time they shift their weight from one foot or another, it catches your attention again.

That said, super usher was probably a bit obnoxious, and the whole "respect"thing was rather silly, but you know, there are seats for a reason.

3

We Catholics are so rigid that it’s implicitly understood that no service will last longer than 1 hour. If he chooses to frivolously spend a little more time on the homily, we fully expect the priest to choose the shortest version of the “transmogrification ritual” to even things out.

The only exception is Palm Sunday and that’s because it takes 45 minutes to read the gospel. On that day, and that day only, we open up our hearts and generously allow an extra 5 minutes. Other than that day, though, if the priest takes longer than the allocated one hour, half the congregation simply walks out at the top of the hour. No excuses, no apologies. Just walks right on out.

The ushers could don gas masks and riot gear but it would have no effect. You just don’t mess with a catholic trying to exit church.

4

I know that this OP Title addresses Church, but I wanted to throw this in anyway, I hope nobody is gonna see this as any kind of a hijack.
In almost all Synogogues I have been to, when it’s the High Holiday services, there are people up in the back. A constant stream of people getting up, walking out the back or side doors, and chatting in small groups in the lobby. It’s the damnedest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

The single WORST offender without QUESTION is the Forest Hills Jewish Center. Its a very immense sanctuary; I’d guess that between the main floor and the balcony that it can handle at least 2,500 people. This place is ABUZZ in the back, and in the lobby during High Holiday services.

I have spent quite a few of those services, up in the choir loft which in that temple is VERY high up, above the Ark in a separate room. You can look through the artwork carved into the wall above the Eternal Flame from the inside , and see the entire congregation, Bima, etc.

Yes, there are Ushers in a Synogogue too. Why, I don’t know. They aren’t Ushing anyone. It’s embarassing, I tell you. Now, I must say, the average High Holiday Service will run you from 2-3 hours. It’s rough. A bathrooom run is without doubt going to happen. But…they’ve got enough people back there to field many soccer teams…

And the Rabbi just stands up there, continuing his service, looking like this… ;j …happy as a clam ( or some other verboten shellfish ).
It’s just not right.

Cartooniverse

5

Depends on the priest and the parish. In the parish nearest to where I now live, the mass can go on for more than an hour, according to a friend that goes to it. The Spanish mass, which is the one I went to, lasted about an hour and a half. Apparently, since it is the only service offered in Spanish, they decided to make it a High Mass, instead of a simple direct one. Before someone asks, no there was nothing special on the calendar that day.

Back home, I go to about one mass per year. The mass is celebrated under a tent, lasts about 45 minutes, includes music, and non-Catholics can participate (in the singing and reading, that is, not in the communion).

6

Perhaps this is what was still fresh in his mind.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/12/church.shooting/index.html

It does happen. :frowning:

7

I think you should have then said, “Excuse me, but I was trying not to embarass you, but I have hemorhoids!”

And then look uncomfortable.

8

My brother, the Methodist minister, is so happy to have people in church celebrating that he doesn’t care if they sit or stand or jog in place. As long as it doesn’t disturb the other parishoners, he’s fine with it.

9

I stopped going to the evening service at my church because they started gradually making it longer, and longer, and longer…
At first it was an hour and fifteen minutes: 7 to 8:15, and that includes a 20 minute sermon and Communion. Fine. Then they got a new, very enthusiastic rock-music group, and whenever “the Spirit moves them” we have to sing each of the praise choruses through four times instead of twice. So now the sevice goes till 8:45. Then, they started doing things like random “sharing” (by the way, I’m Anglican, and we don’t usually do things like testimonies or praise choruses), and adding even more music. Eventually, it starts at 7 and ends at 9:30. This is a problem, obviously: the service is too long. So to solve it… drumroll… THEY START IT AT 6:30 INSTEAD!!! BRILLIANT!!!
I don’t mind long services in Orthodox churches, and I understand that Coptic ones can go on for up to four hours… and in the really traditional ones, there aren’t any seats. But those are SUPPOSED to be long.

10

Just a little (I hope) hijack - hypothetically, what would happen if I, a Pantheist Neo-Christian, were to partake of communion in a Catholic church?

11

According to scripture, you would spontaneously combust and catechism booklets would rain down from the heavens.
I, uh, don’t remember the exact chapter and verse at the moment. But I’m pretty sure it was from Paul’s letter to the San Luis Obispoans.

12

Okay, this is the pit, so I’m going to let loose in my underspoken, TLW kind of way.

What is this nonsense about a church service being “too long.” Even if a church service clocks in at two hours, it is still shorter than a play, a concert, and most (worthwhile) movies, and you don’t have to shell out cash to go to church. I’d place bets that the majority of dopers spend far more than two hours sitting in front of their computers or televisions every single day.

But more importantly. you go to church to interact with, and hear from GOD , you know, the Almighty, the Creator of the Universe, the Holy One? (And if that isn’t why you’re in church, you may need to reconsider your motivation or your denomination.) How can spending two hours, once a week, in the company of like minded people, worshipping the Author of All Life be too long?

Now maybe the seats are uncomfortable – so you take a cushion. (I’ve been doing this since November, when my pregnancy started making me uncomfortable, and I have no intention of stopping once Baby TLW makes his/her appearance, either. I’ve stared a trend, too. A bunch of congregants at my church are now toting pillows to place on our pews.) Now maybe when your pastor starts in on his/her sermons, you don’t feed like you’re hearing from God anymore. That’s a signal that you need to find another church.

But this too long business is just stupid. If God isn’t worth two hours of your time once a week, you need to reevaluate your priorities.

13

At this point, I dozed off.

14

Being a Christian myself, this is what I think on the too long debate.

I have rarely, if ever, gone to church to communicate with God. I have gone to church because my parents forced me or for the social interaction during my early teenage years. God was not a part of the equation.

I have a very strong bias against the “church is where you communicate with God” mindset because I think it’s horseshit. I don’t get close to God because some man behind a pulpit says I should. The only time during a service that I am close to God is when I am immersed in the music, and during communion. The sermon, the scripture readings? Well, if they work for the other congregation members, fine, but they don’t do anything for me.

So now I rarely go to church at all for a myriad of reasons. I don’t believe fellowship with believers has to be in a church rather than in my home, I don’t believe sermons will get me to heaven, and I certainly do not believe public displays of my beliefs of that matter will get me anyway with God.

I don’t even pray in public. I find most public prayers to be the furthest thing from humility–it’s more of a “who can be more intelligent and reverent sounding” contest.

I also think one can worship God in the most innocuous ways–while gardening, while preparing dinner, while practicing a musical instrument, even while HAVING SEX, horror of horrors. Therefore, I don’t see the point of going to church obsessively, and I certainly don’t see the point of people chastising other people for leaving when the advertised leaving time is. I think God realizes He only gave us 24-hour days and sometimes the sermon is making us wish we weren’t Christians.

15

You know, it’s true and shameful, you MTV generation kiddos have the attention span of narcoleptic fleas.

Nocturne, without arguing the religious ideals behind sermons and scripture readings, I only proffer this – any church with an “advertised leaving time” is not a church I’d have anything to do with. “We shall worship God in the space between 11 AM and 12:15 PM only” is a scarily inflexible, limiting, constrictive way to run a church. Perhaps it’s my charismatic background coming to fore, but were I a head pastor, I wouldn’t be the one who tried to provide a rigid timetable in which God could reveal Himself to my congregation. And were a congregant, I wouldn’t be happy with such a pastor.

16

A nice Catholic woman, whom I met at the singles program of my Presbyterian church took me to her Friday night mass, and I unwittingly got in line and took communion (she decided not to), and she informed me that I had committed a big no-no, not being a Catholic. Had she simply interrupted me, I would have respected their practice.

17

tlw, I was raised on the Bible. I was raised semi-Fundamentalist Southern Baptist. I know the Bible pretty damn well. I also don’t believe that all of it is the inerrant word of God, so there you go.

I still read the Bible (even the apocryphal books the Protestants don’t seem to have). I still fellowship with believers and discuss religious matters. I just don’t see why I have to travel with a building with a steeple to hear some “expert’s” opinion when my God made me rational enough on my own to figure his will out.

18

Actually, when I regularly went to church as a Catholic (I haven’t been to Mass for 15 years, but still believe most of their doctrines), I was told if I hadn’t confessed that week I should not participate in Communion. I tried to use that excuse with my parents, and they were more concerned with appearances than doctrine…No wonder I stopped going to church.

19

Is it wrong to pray for the service to be over soon?
(I’m sorry if that offends any one- I think it is funny. My parents attend a Baptist service which routinely has services that last 3-4 hours. When I was little, that was an amazingly long time. When I got older, I found a different church…)

20

Well, tlw, being 44 years old I can hardly be called the “MTV generation”. The problem with church services, as I see it, is not the sermon. It usually lasts about 15 minutes. The problem is the other hour - the announcements, the tired hymns, the offering, the “children’s time”, and “passing the Peace of Christ” etc. etc. The announcements are already in the bulletin, and it is assumed we can all read, so why are they gone over, word for word as they are in the bulletin, each Sunday? Why can’t the offering be accomplished by the deacons standing with their plates in the foyer/narthex or whatever just before or just after the service? Why is this phony “passing the Peace” even done, when a greeting and a hug/handshake are meaningless when something other than sincerity are compelling you to proffer them? And why are the same 10 century-old hymns being sung (or, at another church I attended, the same 10 “hip, new” hymns) with the chorus repeated x number of times?

Wednesday night, all of this is dispensed with, and we have an hour to an hour and a half of prayer and bible study. I am always surprised when that time is up, because it passes so quickly.

On Sundays, I can’t wait to get to the sermon, because I haven’t yet figured out how any of the rest of the service has to do with worship, and I haven’t yet figured out how to sit through it without being bored.

The closer I become to God, the less I go to church. I think church gives God a bad name.