Seige is a fine christian woman

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Vanilla,

The public apology is a great gesture, and I thank you for it. It clears out a big heap of logs in my own eyes, as well.

Fundamentalism isn’t about hate, directly, though. It’s about authority. And when you find out that authority is not given unto man, then you end up speaking out against the men that claim divine authority. The hate comes in from the fear that causes to the people in church hierarchies. If you don’t accept the authority of those who speak for the Church (whatever church) then you are dangerous to the power of that authority.

However, it is a subtle temptation to despise those who profess things we cannot accept. Rather let us accept that although Siege is a fine Christian woman, the preachers of intolerance are only sinners themselves, also beloved of our Lord. You have judged Her, and now recant that act. Your public apology is appropriate, because the judgement was made publicly. But it is in your heart that you must bring this sin before the Lord, and that is a private matter.

The way is narrow, and it is very easy to become lost. We, the lost must seek to help each other, until the Lord finds us.

Tris

22

This part of your post really struck a chord with me, vanilla.

I was raised to believe in a just, forgiving, and (above all) loving Lord. I find it impossible to believe that the God I know would be pleased with all the hatred spread in His name. I believe that you honor God through your love and kindness toward your fellow man…not through how many people you can claim are going to Hell. I have met far too many “Christians” who only seem to be religious so they can say “I’m going to Heaven and you’re not. Nah nah na nah nah” Like it’s some sort of club where the members are free to make fun of everyone they don’t find worthy to be a member. I don’t think God looks upon these sort of “Christians” and says: “Yeah, that’s what I want people to do in My name. Hey, guys, exclude and isolate as many people as you can, more room in Heaven for the rest of us.” I believe that “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” is the greatest commandment and if all Christians lived by this rule, the world would be a much better place.

23

vanilla, I’m so glad you came to your senses and realized that those people are not behaving as Christians should (meaning, if I’m not mistaken, that the ideal for Christians is to behave as Jesus did). Also, good on you for making your apology in public, since you made your criticisms public. You’re absolutely correct, Siege is a fine woman (with a really cool accent, btw), and I’ve been pleased and honored to have met her in person and conversed with her for a while. This of course, proves what a good Christian she is, because she and I talked for some length of time, and not once did she try to convert me! :smiley:

24

This part bears repeating. Very well said, Tris.

But good on the whole bunch of y’all - vanilla, Siege, and Tris -for a lot of classiness.

Regards,
Shodan

25

Des…perado…why don’t you come to your senses… :slight_smile:

But really, I figured people who CALL themselves christians would be nice.
Wrong.
They wished death and pain on Michael Moore.
I was the only disagree-er.
I was pretty much banned for this thread (they find this a satanic evil board but love to read it).

The people on this board ACT like Jesus; not just talk the right talk and thats why this board is so good.
We can disagree here (except for Reeder, who is wrong about everything)
I’m kidding-he knows :wink:

Thank you guys for forgiving me my temporary nuttiness.
It will not happen again.

26

Excuse me. When I first saw this, I was having a working lunch, scrambling like mad to finish a project which absolutely, positively had to be done before I left early for a weekend away with friends. The weekend was wonderful but hectic, and I finally have time to compose a proper reply to this.

There are somethings I cannot be, no matter how hard I try. I’ve tried to fit into the molds people have cast me in, and not only have I not fit, I’ve damaged myself in the process. I do respect my more conservative brethren’s right to believe what they do; I’ll even concede they might have a stronger basis for their beliefs in Scripture and certainly do so in tradition. Nevertheless, I’ve lived an odd life and shows no sign of becoming any more conventional. I’m not trying to be any kind of a “Super Christian” around here; the very notion of being considered one makes me shake my head and look confused. I’m just trying to do what I believe is right and have a little fun (Ok, last weekend, a lot of fun! :smiley: ). The thing is, the people vanilla referred to are also trying to do what they believe is right, or so I have to assume.

We’ve got some marvelous people on this board, only some of whom have posted here. It’s an honor to call you friends, both those of you I’ve met (Hi, norinew!) and those I haven’t. You may not know it, but you’ve done a lot for me and sustained me in some very rough times.

Vanilla, by going out to that forum, you did something I couldn’t, and I’m glad you did it. You have continually remind me that, while we may differ on a couple of Fundamental points (pun definitely intended! ;), you, two are one of the finest Christians I know, and that’s saying something. You are a dear and treasured friend, and, if I do wind up getting married, your invitation will include transportation.

I would also like to publicly thank EddyTeddyFreddy, who very graciously served as intermediary for both of us recently. This wouldn’t have happened without her.

Oh, and Sattua, I don’t see why one can’t be an agnostic and want the government to leave you alone. The Wiccan whose been staying with me for the past couple of months (long story!) is still a die-hard political conservative.

Thank you, all of you,
CJ

27

Well, I think you may be wrong about this; I think that some of them are bigoted, narrow-minded mean people who find that if they twist what’s in the Bible to back up their own twisted beliefs, they can expound their crap as much as they want, and many won’t contradict them in the name of “respecting religious differences”. IOW, they are not doing what the Bible commands them, but rather twisting what’s in the Bible to back their own agenda.

I remember seeing a White Supremacist on Sally Jesse Raphael years ago (no, I don’t habitually watch that crap, but my mom was watching it, and I was there), and the WS kept proclaiming himself a Christian. Finally someone in the audience stood up and said “You keep claiming to be a Christian; well, I could claim to be a head of cabbage, but it wouldn’t make me one!”

In my Faith, we have a quote from the Prophet: “Let deeds, not words, be your adorning”. To me, Siege, this is the fundamental ( :smiley: ) difference between Christians like you, and “Christians” like the ones Vanilla is talking about: they know how to talk the talk, but you know how to walk the walk!

28

Siege is without a doubt the most Christ-like person* I have met online, possibly anywhere.

Vanilla, I like you a lot too; I know you have had a hard time facing up to and accepting a number of difficult issues, but as far as I’ve seen, you have been invariably honest and straightforward; qualities which are much rarer than they ought to be in people of faith, and qualities much underrated. God bless you.
<<<Group hug everybody!>>>
*[sup]For certain, personally-idealised values of ‘Christ’[/sup]

29

I think the key point, here, is the word some. I think that Jerry Falwell injects a lot of pain into the world, but in looking at his career over the last 30 years, it appears to me that he is genuinely working to support his (twisted in my view) understanding of the Gospel. In contrast, Pat Robertson, in the same period, has deliberately used hatred and poison to promote programs that will increase his personal wealth. (Most notorious are the various African groups whom he has condemned or praised, depending on where his investments lie.) Fred Phelps preaches pure hatred, but he is not representative of any majority of Fundamentalists. (And, while Fundamentalists are the focus of this discussion, there is ample hatred flowing through various “mainstream” (or “progressive” or “liberal”) Christian groups.

I see Falwell (and Wildmon) and a few others as simply terrified of the world, on the other side of the coin that Tris described–fear that their authority (or their understanding of the source of their authority) is wrong. I am perfectly willing to oppose their actions and offer my differing perspective on the word of God, but I am less eager to dismiss them as deliberately hateful.

There is certainly enough hatred out there, but it has many sources besides a desire to do evil–fear and misunderstanding chief among them.

“Afraid to lose her…I think.”

“What’s that got to do with anything?”

"Everything!!
"Fear is the path to the dark side… fear leads to anger… anger leads to hate… hate leads to suffering.

30

I am glad you bumped this thread, friend.

When I was attcked on that board, I felt, what did I do wrong?
Then, I thought about it, and realized that the board only has 10 active members, I think you guys call this a circle jerk, though I don’t exactly know what you mean by that.

Some folk have a problem separating fith from politics, in fact, they say you cannot.
One even said when you vote for christian(Bush) you vote for God.
:eek: :frowning:

It really is true, a christian will act like Christ (or attempt to) not just say things.

That verse which says When you helped the least of these, you were helping me and Mercy triumphs over judgment can only make us christians feel a gret releif; we do not have to measure up some way, just be kind.
For some, thats too hard.

Siege, to see You marry, I will walk there! :slight_smile:

31

You left out a bit at the end there… suffering leads to B&D… B&D leads to this. Definitely a bad thing.

Sorry about that. Anyway, good to see you all getting along. The animous that often comes with self-professed “Christians” has confused me most of my life. I won’t get into that, just good to see a little good old fashioned “love thy neighbor” going on.

32

Oh, absolutely! In fact, I fully intended to italicize the word “some” and then forgot; I even previewed, darnit! :slight_smile:

33

Oh, absolutely! In fact, I fully intended to italicize the word “some” and then forgot; I even previewed, darnit! :slight_smile: