Look, Kyl said, on the senate floor:
“If you want an abortion, you go to Planned Parenthood, and that’s well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does.”
90% of what Planned Parenthood does. He did not say 90% of what their budget goes for. Nor did he say 90% of what they spend their money on.
What planned parenthood does.
Well guess what? 3% of what planned parenthood “does” is provide abortions.
So your pedantic “point” about measuring costs instead of measuring services is moot. That’s not what the old fart Kyl was talking about.
I don’t doubt that he assumed most of what PP does is abortions. But the fact is he was wrong. And when you are wrong you don’t hide behind “Oh, well obviously I didn’t mean that factually”, you say “Oh, I was wrong. PP actually does a hell of a lot more than abortions. In fact, abortions are a small part of their work”.
And next week, someone else will repeat the 90% claim - no doubt because they assume it to be true, perhaps even because they heard it from Kyl who they trust.
And eventually, after enough people repeat it and enough people believe it, PP will be defunded and one of the few sources for contraception and OB/GYN care for the poor will be gone. And John Kyl will claim victory.
Yes there is. I doubt it. Several people in this thread doubt it. I bet I could google up several thousand people that doubt it. Since you have directly responded to several on this thread that doubt it, you know that it is a fact that people doubt it, so what do you call your statement above?
An excuse is intended to rationalize something. Fotheringay-Phipps is just bullshitting. Either he started defending Kyl before he read what Kyl actually said, or he doesn’t believe what he’s writing. There is no way to read Kyl’s statement and think the point is “Planned Parenthood spend some of its money on abortions.” Everyone knows they do abortions. Kyl was saying Planned Parenthood does almost nothing except provide abortions (which is false no matter what measurement you use - revenue, total services, or something else, and I acknowledge the 3 percent figure may shade things lower), and that they should not receive any federal funding as a result because "The American People[sup]TM[/sup] don’t want their money spent on abortions. He’s not the first Republican to make this argument recently and he’s not the only one who went after Planned Parenthood.
I don’t.
Thank you for your permission, but yes, I know the abortion issue has nothing to do with the broader deficit problem. And I was so close to believing that the Republicans weren’t interested in the social conservative stuff anymore because they realized their base wanted them to focus on the fiscal issues.
It is about the next election. They are using Planned Parenthood as a target to rile up the abortion issue voters. It does not use very much of the budget. Killing it would not impact the wealthy nor most Republican voters… For them it is a big win.
Well, it’s either that or they send some asshole dressed up like a pimp with a video camera…
Are we really surprised they’re trying to shut down another organization? And why wouldn’t they, the last one was easy. And I bet PP has a lot more little tiny skeletons in their closet than ACORN ever had.
For purposes of contrast and comparison, Michelle Batshit…
Theres a squick point in the public mind, and they are looking to exploit it. Americans have, by and large, come around on choice, its merits are obvious, even polically conservative women firmly acknowledge control over their own bodies. But saying that people can accept abortion and the validity of choice is not to say that they approve, they most assuredly do not. It may well be that their reactions are visceral and unreasoned, but they are none the less real.
So, the squick point: is paying for it from public funds. They can accept being legal, they can accept being safe, but paying for it from public health funds squicks them out, they can’t get there.
Thats why the wingers are telling these lies, they are pressing on that squick point. They want to gull the public into believing that this is an issue about huge amounts of public money spent for abortions, and if they can do that, they will win.
To most Americans (liberal and conservative) Planned Parenthood is abortion. Kyl wasn’t being hyperbolic, that’s what he believes. Saying it’s 90% is his way of saying all thing thinks of his abortion when he hears the word Planned Parenthood.
And to be perfectly honest, it wasn’t until about a week ago that I learned they actual have “free clinic” type stuff. I would have guess 90% abortion 9% free condoms, and 1% b/c.
Not long ago a celebrity chef gave an interview and as part of it said “9 out of 10 restaurants fail.” (90%) It wasn’t hyperbole or a lie, it was simply a common misconception he’d heard so many times he never bothered to check it.
Face it, people are stupid. And this guy just made a lot of money.
In the context of the discussion it’s likely he meant what their budget goes for, and many people would agree that where an entity allocates its resources is a more accurate measure of what it does and what its primary function is than number of services.
As evidence, note how many people just assumed incorrectly that the 3% is a budget number. Where do you think that came from? It’s because this is the measure that people naturally assume would be used.
What do you base this on?
One reason I wonder about it is because I know someone who recently had a D&C after a “spontaneous abortion” (aka a miscarriage) and the bills for doctor, anesthesia, and facilities etc. ran to thousands of dollars. And in general, medical procedures on a scale like an abortion don’t tend to cost anywhere near as low as $500.
And there are different ways to allocate fixed costs, and other ways of measuring cost, so I wonder about the $500 number. I’m not asserting it’s wrong, but I’m not sure it’s right either.
I agree. He should have been more forthright.
OK, I’ll play along (for now).
[ul]
[li]There is no doubt that the Nazis killed millions of people.[/li][li]There is no doubt that LHO shot JFK.[/li][li]There is no doubt that the Apollo astronauts landed on the moon.[/li][li]There is no doubt that Elvis Presley is dead.[/li][li]There is no doubt that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.[/li][/ul]And yet, there are thousands of people who doubt each of these statements.
Now what?
He was saying their primary function is abortions. The hyperbole was in jacking it up to “well over 90%”.
No, he was not. He was saying abortions are pretty much the only thing they do. That’s what “well over 90 percent means.” You own Media Matters cite debunks the claim “their primary function is abortion” and it also places Kyl’s statement in the proper context, which is that Republicans have been trying to depict Planned Parenthood as a group that provides nothing except abortions so they can justify eliminating its federal funding.
It’s still not hyperbole. Hyperbole is a general overstatement intended to illustrate a point, and it has to be overt to be a hyperbole. Kyl’s comment was a deliberate misstatement. There was no acknowledgement it was hyperbole (his office hasn’t even tried this defense) and no acknowledgement it was factually untrue until someone else called him on it.
Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait. Wait.
You’re actually trying to make a case for the argument that “To his supporters, it doesn’t matter because anything goes for the win. To his detractrors, anything goes because fuck him anyway. Ergo, anything goes and nothing else matters (e.g. ethics, honesty, facts).” ?
That’s pretty much the death of politics right there. Even though I have to admit, that’s where American politics seem to be headed these days.
The difference between “primarily” and “pretty much the only thing” was hyperbole.
As above, “not intended to be a factual statement” means it was not intended to be taken as an accurate representation of the facts, i.e. a hyperbole. The idea that his office intended to convey to a member of the media that he intended to lie about facts is ludicrous, and something that would only be credible to morons or inflamed partisans. This thread and MB has a lot of people who believe the latter interpretation because it contains people of these types (mostly the latter, I would think).
