Honestly, at this point, self-identifying as a republican is enough of a black mark for me to write you off as anything resembling a sane politician. Yeah, even you, Collins - you can tout your bipartisan bona fides all you want, but if you weren’t fucking crazy, you would have abandoned your party back when they were taking hostages to get their way. The party is fundamentally incapable of reasonable governance. They spent the last 8 years in an unprecedented push to nullify and stifle the government, and now that this strategy has worked and they actually have the power, they’re like a dog who’s caught a car and doesn’t quite know what to do with it, because at no point in the last 8 years did they even try to govern in a positive way (i.e. enacting legislature that actually accomplished something, rather than simply trying to tear the existing legislature down). And somehow, republican voters either didn’t notice or didn’t care.
And somehow, Trump goes beyond all that and makes it even worse. Kasich, Rubio, and co. would still be on the hook for that shit, but they probably wouldn’t be facing heavy criticism for shady dealings with Russia during the election, or insane conspiracy theories, or hiring utterly incapable people for nearly every major government post he fills, or not filling most government posts*, or utterly despicable and disgusting failures of diplomacy, and I could really go on all day. It’s like we’re starting at a baseline of fucking awful, then tunneling down a few dozen stories.
Kasich and Rubio would get shit. No kidding, fucking Obama got shoveled shit like he’s a prizewinning pumpkin plant, and his party was fundamentally capable of, you know, governing! But it wouldn’t really be the same as with Trump.
*And no, it’s not just democratic obstruction; Trump has yet to nominate anyone for most of these posts, or fill those posts where congressional approval is not necessary. We still don’t even have a shortlist for head of FEMA, and it kinda shows.
Hell, Trump could come out with a killer infrastructure new deal (one that actually increases taxes to fix the US infrastructure instead of cherry picking and privatizing utilities) and I’d be fully behind it.
Muslim ban, destroy discretionary spending to build a stupid wall, increase military spending by destroying discretionary spending, ad naseum, and I’d heap scorn on Rubio or Kasich as well. I’m a 6 figure independent voter, and you push stupid and possibly unconstitutional shit that benefits the top 1% and the expense of the 99%, then I’ll bitch slap that shithead as well. It ain’t the personality, its the shit the person is ramming down our throats.
To the OP, methinks you’re being extremely partisan. I care most about what someone in the White House does, rather than their personality or who they are. Chuck Schumer isn’t opposing Trump because he is Trump and an erstwhile Republican, it is because Trump is trying to destroy an awful lot of what many of us hold near and dear about the US of A.
Your “typical” Republican wouldn’t have the media issues that Trump has. So while Democrats in government and the very politically minded left would object the same way they do to Trump a lot of the moderates or less political wouldn’t even notice what this theoretical president did, much less protest them at every turn.
A lot of the negative attention Trump is getting is simply due to his public buffoonery.
Neither Kasich or Rubio would have made a big deal about the fake-ass size of their inauguration crowd…not for a single moment, let alone for WEEKS. They also would have smart enough not to go after John Lewis, nor would they have accused the former president of committing a felonious act with absolutely no evidence.
I also think they would have done a better job surrounding themselves with smart people, not their daughter and son-in-law. And they would have also taken the time to vet their advisors so as to prevent colossal embarrassments like Flynn.
No, they would not have been greeted in the streets with flowers. But the nature of the political ribbing would have been entirely different.
What “media issues”? During his campaign, the media gave him entirely too much free airtime–because he was such a novelty. Besides, everybody knew his election was highly unlikely.
Now, the media* dare* to present his words & deeds to the public. And even re-play previous words which his current words prove to be lies. Or just the vagrant thoughts floating through his empty mind at some earlier date…
Yeah, I’d find lots of objections to a “regular” Republican president. (Although the current Republican standard is far worse than what I remember.) But Trump’s special qualities have even been noted by some in his own party. (Hey, they’ve got Pence ready to go.)
Yes. Any Republican is going to come in for the same level and type of rhetoric, on the SDMB in particular. Because this -
is mainstream opinion hereabouts. All Republicans are assumed to be stupid Nazi fascist crooks by default.
:shrugs: Discount what the SDMB as a whole says about any Republican by 50% or so, and see if there is a grain of truth in the rest. Sometimes there is.
I know! Reasonable debate never occurs here. It’s not like any liberals (like me, perhaps) have ever engaged in reasonable and thoughtful discussion with conservatives like you. And, in the unlikely event that this ever occurred, any such liberal would have been immediately flamed by the “mainstream opinion” and never tried again.
You don’t recall the post-Katrina criticisms and the Kanye West commentary that coalesced the Bust/racist meme rather neatly?
We had plenty of discussion here about the claim (where, in fairness, Bush had a number of defenders from the left) but there were also comments from then-regular contributors here that endorsed the view that Bush was racist.
If one looks back at the presidency of Bush it seems to me that the centrists of this board were not despising him from the earliest moment or agreeing with the harder Left side.
So the answer is rationally that the harder Left side would be probably reacting in the same way but you would not see the centrists reacting to a Rubia or a Kasisch in this way or supporting the more hysterical reactions.
Of course on much of the very Right among the Americans here there is a great tradition of whining about the abuse from the Left here for any criticism so no matter what you would also see that whining.
Questions for Bricker:
(1) In your world-view is there even a smidgen of difference between one person calling Mr. X a moron, and a million people calling Mr. X a moron?
(2) Was Obama called a moron?
(3) Was Obama called a racist?
(4) Was Obama’s very right to the office denied?
(5) Were these charges against Obama basically untrue?
(6) Was vicious rhetoric leveled against Obama?
Well, I didn’t say that… And you didn’t dispute any of it…
My point is that many of the sins of Trump - things like a complete lack of interest in coherent health care policy; an inability to get things done if getting them done involves anything other than dismantling the government or cutting taxes, specifically on the super rich; reflexive attacks on science that threatens their political identity in any way; disinterest in letting people with experience and/or understanding run the government; a complete disregard for norms, cooperation, and coalition-building; a penchant for wild-ass conspiracy theories; adherence to and support of “alternative” media which peddles first and foremost “alternative” facts - are the sins of the republican party as a whole.
It’s not Trump’s fault that he had to run on “repeal and replace” without a damned clue what “repeal and replace” was even supposed to mean, or what the replacement was supposed to look like. That’s what the republican party has been doing for the last 6-7 years. Campaigning first on “repeal Obamacare because of death panels”, and then later, when it became obvious that Obamacare was successful and just repealing it would throw millions off their healthcare, on “repeal and replace Obamacare, we can do it better, no we won’t explain how”. It’s not Trump’s fault that, 6 years later, the Republicans still didn’t have an answer. That’s on the republican party.
It’s not Trump’s fault that his policy ideas are basically fucking bankrupt. Government is the problem, remember? So when some issue like the opioid crisis rolls around, what the fuck does a republican do? Cut taxes on methadone? Make heroin more illegal? Cut funding for opioid recovery programs and health care? I’m reminded of a joke my friend made back in grade school. “Doctor, where’s my crew?” “Well, captain, they all had headaches, and I only know how to amputate, so…” No big surprise that his proposed solution looks like vapid bullshit, either, although the fact that he’s not talking to experts may in fact be a Trump thing; maybe Kasich would have done that a little better.
But, even beyond all that shit, as pointed out, the Trump administration goes above and beyond. The russia thing. How fucking abysmal Trump is at diplomacy. The xenophobia. The wall. The insane 3AM tweets. The inauguration crowd thing. Those are the kind of things Kasich and co. probably wouldn’t do. Kind of small potatoes compared to the whole “cannot even pretend to govern effectively for five fucking minutes” thing, for the most part, at least in my opinion.
He picks fights with the media in ways that normal politicians don’t. I can see Rubio or Kasich being annoyed (or even pissed as hell) at the NYT. I don’t see them running around screaming “You’re Fake News” at the paper, because that’s a level of insane that they haven’t reached.
Most Republicans are more connected to reality than Trump is, so the news would be less likely to need to report things like this Jezebel article (or report about the Jezebel article).
His playing the presidency like a reality show villain is creating more attention but also more public problems than Jeb would.
It doesn’t matter which Republican candidate beat Hillary. Schumer, and the rest of the Hillary worshippers, would still be frothing at the mouth in order to overcome their embarrassment at being duped into thinking that Hillary couldn’t lose. Damn voters. We’re smarter than they are. Why can they just do what we tell them to do?
The Democrat party, and it’s very vocal public supporters (aka the usual suspects), appear to be getting more, and more, desperate in their efforts to regain momentum for their programs, or at least stop Republican progress. Attacking any, and all, Republicans seems to be their currently preferred method. Or maybe it’s the only effective method they have left? It doesn’t matter which Republican, they would all receive the same treatment. Tailored to the individual, of course.
While the SDMB has always been 90% liberal echo chamber, the election of Trump has brought this sort of attitude up to levels that would absolutely, positively NOT have happened if a person like Rubio or Kasich had been elected.
You are implicitly saying Trump hasn’t changed the political discourse. That is insane. Political discourse in the United States has never been like this, certainly not in modern history.
Whine about Democratic opposition all y’all want, the problem isn’t the Dems, it’s your own team being in complete disarray because the guy y’all elected can’t lead.
Let’s be clear here: Donald Trump has worsened the lives of all he has associated with, and he is effectively doing to the GOP what he did to the USFL.
Unless you’re drinking the kool-aid over those three million illegal voters, then you’re aware that the voters chose Clinton over Trump. Democrats lost because of the way the Electoral College is designed not because the voters are rejecting their platform. The Democrats have received more votes in six out the past seven elections. It’s the Republicans who should be worried about connecting with the voters.
I agree and for about 2 seconds I was pleased to hear him talk about infrastructure until he finished the sentence by talking about public/private partnerships. That usually means the public bears the cost and the private interests take the profits
I would have been more upset if anyone Republican other than Trump had been elected. I see Trump as a liability to the GOP agenda and if one of their guys had to win I’m glad it was him.
If it were, you’d be able to quote, say, half a dozen of the liberal posters in this thread saying similar things. Since you can only quote one, your claim is laughable.
Yes, at the edges, you’ll be able to find people criticizing anyone as a Nazi. Hell, WillFarnaby is on this board pretty regularly, excoriating Lincoln as a tyrant.
The question isn’t what the most inflammatory rhetoric will be. The question is what mainstream criticism will consist of.
W got nowhere near the amount or consistency of vitriol that Trump gets. For good reason.
I didn’t call them Nazis, either. I just said that the party as a whole is, at this point, irredeemably broken. I don’t think this is an unreasonable sentiment to have after the last 8 years. I really don’t. Even sane politicians, like Susan Collins, are dragged down by the black mark that is being a part of the modern republican party - if she’s sane, why is she still associating with the party behind the Debt Ceiling standoff and President Donald Trump?! They’re not nazis. They’re just fundamentally incapable of good governance, and have proven that in the last 8 years.
