To be sure, I’m not sure if one ever gets really really totally over it. I think it makes changes in the way your nerves work that never really totally recovers. Here’s a little detail I didn’t mention up-thread: I actually got addicted to Klonopin twice. First time, using 1 mg/day which gradually went to 2 mg/most days, which was still only half what the Rx said I could use. Began to notice dependency symptons. Quit (tapered off that time, I recall). Had NASTY withdrawal (insomnia, brain zaps) – but it only lasted a week, and then it was mostly over.
Fast forward about 6 months. Began using Klonopin again, only about half as much as before. THIS is the story I told above. Got hooked again, quit (cold turkey this time, because using such small dose), had same kind of NASTY w/d again – only THIS time, it lasted 16 months! Even after that, I felt weird for another two years or so. And even after THAT, I’ve still never felt quite totally right to this day.
ETA: My doctors never warned nor advised me about any of this. It was only AFTER all that (that is, during the midst of the second w/d) that I found the benzo web site and Ashton Manual that I cited above.
The conclusion seems to be, once you get snared like this, your brain cells never really get totally over it, such that if you use again, you’ll have it even worse this time.
Maybe AA is right – once an addict, always an addict?
BTW, I agree with Cyningablod about the AA being a group-think kind of thing. I never did AA, but I’ve done so-called “group therapy” for anxiety and depression, where they emphasized “Cognitive Behavioral Therapy” (CBT). That most definitely isn’t MY cup of quinine – really group-think dynamics. In another thread just a few days ago, I made my opinions about THAT very clear.
I’d rather not go into a lot of detail, but what it comes down to is just the ubiquity of Rx narcotics these days. They’re everywhere–in just about any household medicine cabinet–and from time to time I’m exposed to them, like anyone else. The difference for me is my addiction history with them.
It is indeed the case that such networks exist. Rx drugs are illicitly acquired (“diverted” is the legal term), distributed, sold, bought, and used in networks very similar to those of “street” drugs. Fortunately I was never involved in that sort of thing. My struggle was very individual, very private and limited in scope.
No. I really don’t have many friends anyway :D, and I’ve never regularly associated with other addict acquaintances. I’ve seen and met lots of other addicts, both in the buprenorphine/methadone clinic and at NA meetings, but I don’t like being around them, even briefly (which is one of the reasons NA wasn’t for me).
(Maybe it’s a kind of hypocritical arrogance or unjustified sense of superiority, but I just don’t like being around drug users. On multiple occasions other users have tried to score/buy from me, right there in the lobby of the damn clinic. They can be a real annoyance, especially those who just don’t seem like they’re even at all interested in getting clean. I sometimes got the impression that a lot of the bupe/methadone patients were there either because they’d been court-ordered, or just because they were trying to make new hook-up connections. :mad:)
Congrats!!! I had one doctor try to persuade me to use clonazepam for my Restless Legs Syndrome and I had to pretty much do the “Read. My. Lips. I. Will. Not. Take. Klonopin” thing. Another doctor (more knowledgeable in RLS treatment) later told me that in his experience, it takes longer for someone to become dependent on the benzos than on the narcotics, but the benzos are harder to kick once it does happen.
Dealing with both of these - wow. Quite impressive!!
I don’t know; I’ve read some research (can’t remember where, so don’t ask me for a cite :D) to the effect that generally speaking, the brain very slowly recovers from the kind of severe, chronic oversaturation by neurotransmitters that drug use causes. Opiate abuse in particular causes a sharp drop or “pruning” of the number of functional mu-opioid receptors in the brain, but after a long enough period of sobriety, these receptors kind of “grow back”.
However, it’s also been established that long-term abuse of drugs that flood the brain with the pleasure-inducing neurotransmitter dopamine (eg, meth, cocaine) destroy dopamine receptors to a degree that they don’t ever fully recover. So ex-meth addicts can literally spend the rest of their lives never capable of feeling the same kinds and degrees of pleasure that they felt before using meth. I find that sad and horrible. Maybe it’s the same with benzos; I don’t know. But anecdotally, I don’t feel like I’ve suffered any very long-term receptor damage.
I was never warned either. But the blame doesn’t fall entirely on my former shrink; I accept some of the responsibility for failing to educate myself as a health consumer on the risks of benzo use.
I don’t want to turn this into a debate or referendum on the AA model of addiction, but I will say, I totally disagree with the idea. Speaking strictly medically (although IANAD), the term “addiction” describes particular neurochemical and behavioral/psychological conditions. Once a person is sober for a long period of time, the term ceases to apply, even if brain damage is present. There’s a big difference between the actual scientific meanings of “physical dependence” and “addiction”. And the sober/recovery period doesn’t involve the conditions described by either term.
Actually, CBT is a legit form of psychotherapy, and has very little to do with group recovery programs. In fact it doesn’t require group participation at all. AFAIK, CBT is usually most often applied in one-on-one psychotherapy, and it’s been shown to be effective.
Just wanted to say thanks! for all the expressions of support and encouragement. It means a lot, even from folks I don’t know personally except through the 'Dope.
Thats great! Congrats!!! Ill too have 8 months next weds =]
And my child and bf were the biggest things to help get me clean; make me realize i have a purpose, and responsibilities, and a reason to live, no to kill myself or run away.
Im a much better person than i was a in the beginning of this year.
Good for you! I related quite some time ago how I had to intervene with my son, who was on opiates and had been arrested for stealing some from the nursing home he worked at. He’s now about three years clean and holding a senior management position in his company. I’m extremely proud of his turnaround, as is the rest of the family, but especially his wife and two children. When I was there with him, I made him listen to this song every day, which I’m sure drove him nuts.
Thank you for your candor; I have no idea why, but while it’s easy for me to picture a bunch of people all hanging out together and sharing a baggie full of marijuana, cocaine or even heroin, but for some reason I can’t imagine a room full of friends doing the same with a bottle of Valium or Ativan…
No matter, I am really glad things are going so well for you and your family.
Wow. Congrats. I’ve been on/off benzos (Klonopin/Xanax) for the last five years. I’m epileptic and I can say for certainty that they’ve saved my life. I have had a lot of people frown on me for taking those (one nurse even lectured me…oh don’t even get me started) and I think it’s because they are prescribed so often for the wrong uses that people have issues.
Most people don’t know that klonopin can be an extremely effective medicine for epilepsy. It’s the only one I can take without nasty side effects. I do have a higher tolerance (or higher dosage need) for such meds (including opiates) but not the addiction you went through.
I am very sorry you had to go through that. I wish docs would be more careful.
Maybe it’s the same with benzos; I don’t know. But anecdotally, I don’t feel like I’ve suffered any very long-term receptor damage.