Well, as I said before, if I were defending the accused teabagger, I would certainly argue that the act was not done for sexual gratification. Pardon the directness, but one question I would ask every witness was, “Did my client appear to have a erection?” While I know that not having an erection is not a perfect indicator of a lack of sexual gratification, it would certainly be a bit of evidence indicating that the motive was not overtly sexually-charged.
whole bean, **Otto ** *did * call it rape, but since it appeared to me that he was using the terms “rape” and “sexual assault” interchangeably, as you were. (Apologies to **Otto ** if I’m wrong.)
let me shasrpen this point.
Me – it’s bad but not rape or rape equivalent
DianaG – no one said rape or rape equivalent
Me – sure they did, Oto said “rape”
why am I now thinking of the scene in *Meet the Parents * where Focker is on the plane and says, 'It’s not like I have a bomb" so he gets interrogated and goes off
“You can’t say bomb on a plane”
“What”
“You said bomb”
"What if I was a bombadier. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb . . . "
or something like that . . . he said rape!!
I agree with you that it isn’t rape. I called it sexual battery because it meets the definition for that in my state. I don’t think it’s fair to compare joking jostling between a married couple to this at all, though. Some might want to characterize this as more of a hazing-type event with no sexual overtones, but frankly, I think that’s delusional. When you get the need to express dominance into play and a man is doing so by forcing another person (male or female) to submit to having his sexual organs placed upon them, it’s sexual. Sorry if that makes people uncomfortable in their fluttery little uber-heterosexual hearts, or elsewhere. And I’m not directing that at you, malkavia, I’m directing it at the “dudes” out there who think there’s nothing at all sexual about placing their bare scrotums on their friends’ faces in a show of dominance. Righty-o, denial boy. :dubious:
No worries! And also, my previous post should read:
A weird little “since” somehow snuck in there.
not only did he say rape. he said first degree (the really bad kind) rape. that’ll get your ass 25 to life some places – for a tea bag? No thanks, I’ll have a Sprite.
What would you say if you were prosecuting him? Just curious.
and a girl who places her bare breasts or ass on a passed out dude’s head?
why have my good cases dried up?
If I had ever gone over to the Dark Side, you mean? 
I probably would not have charged it as a sex crime.
But let’s say I was stuck with prosecuting someone else’s charging decision…
…I’d argue that the jury can infer an act is done for sexual gratification simply because it involves the genitals; that to humiliate her, they could have drawn on her face with a Sharpie or covered her with ketchup and mustard; the choice of “teabagging” is sexual humiliation and the result is sexual gratification for the perpetrator.
It’s still a sexual assault. Why would that be any different?
So this girl goes on a road trip with friends, has too much to drink, and suddenly finds herself in a strange apartment full of physically intimidating guys (speficially football players and other athletes,) who are there ‘trying to score with the girls.’ She’s too drunk to leave, is in a strange town, and is apparently freezing. She makes loud proclomations about how she has a boyfriend as is faithful to him, probably as a way of letting the guys know she isn’t interested. She hides in the bathroom for a while. When she gets out they won’t even let her have a blanket. Then one of them humiliates her after she’s passed out. The rest show approval.
Charming. Looks to me like these guys were about two beers away from doing something indisputably illegal. If the perp were left alone with her, I have no doubt he would have done more than described. This was a bad situation. I hope the girl got home okay and resolved to be safer in the future.
If he was dried up then it couldn’t have been sexual.
whole bean, I’m confused. I’m not being bitchy here, I’m just trying to understand. I acknowledge that someone used the word rape, but I’m not clear on why the word is such a big deal, when you started with this:
Do you equate “rape” and “sexual assault”? If you do, then which particular word **Otto ** used shouldn’t especially matter to you.
Of course, if **Otto ** *doesn’t * equate the two words, then he’s just wrong about it being rape. But again, I’m unclear on why that makes a huge difference from your perspective.
After reading the linked post, I have to agree that what was witnessed was a crime. If I were in the area and knew the woman in question (no matter how annoying she might be), I’d be trying to put CFPF in jail, and Architect Chore would be able to start a new thread called The Hardest I’ve Ever Been Beaten.
breasts really? then what about a well perfumed wrist? a strand of hair? panties?
It’s not any different; neither is a sexual assault.
You shine a light wherever you go.
As grotesque as this little episode of Frat Boy Theatre was, you have to wonder why this stuff is horseplay if done to sleeping male, but sexual assault if done to sleeping woman. Somehow, I don’t think ATIAW would have delurked if AB was “annoying bastard” instead of “annoying bitch” getting teabagged.
Why is there such a double standard here? Why is it so much more outrageous if done to women vs a man? Can you even imagine trying the case where a frat boy would be trying to make the case he was sexually assaulted by getting “goggled” by a woman’s breasts while he was passed out. It would be laughed out of court.
Because there’s no evidence that it is being done for sexual gratification.
The stigmatization is the big deal. Rape is the worst kind of sexual assault, but to answer your questions, yes, I roughly consider all first degree sexual assault as rape or rape equivalent – read: perpetraitors normal life has ended, sew scarlet letter here. I felt that the level of outrage in this thread exceeded the offense, especially when comparisons to “rape” were made. As you can tell, I don’t even think it was sexual assault of any stripe. All that being said, I think the act was abhorrent. I also think picking fights with smaller kids is abhorrent – neither deserve 25 years in the clink.