Mahaloth 1 (Prof.Pepperwinkle 2-9, AngeloftheNorth 146)
Biotop 0 (AngeloftheNorth 146-171)
DemonTree 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146)
LH75 2 (AngeloftheNorth 146, Pardel-Lux 164)
Bicycle_Bill 0 (AngeloftheNorth 146-173)
DizzyMrsLizzy 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146)
AngeloftheNorth 2 (Prof.Pepperwinkle 149, Pardel-Lux 164)
I find this logic unconvincing, especially considering Angel is voting for LH75. Can you explain which of those three things you find most suspicious, and why?
I think it’s clear we do - or will - have a vig.
We know from my previous post that there are no villains in this game. But, there must be some kind of action happening in the night to have someone killed, otherwise we will all discover too quickly that there are in fact no scum in the game.
So my guess is that there is the role of vigilante in this game, but the GM will choose who will fulfill that role at the start of the first night of play. Chronos will chose the most aggressive of us townfolk, the one who was most sure of who the scum is, to play the role of the vigilante. Even if that person reveals their role to the townies (i.e. everyone else playing), who would believe them? Heck, they’d likely end up lynched as a result. (Hmm, is a game with no scum but a vig equivalent to a regular game, in a sense? Have to think about that…)
Alternately, there may be the role of “quack” - a doctor who thinks they have the power to help people survive, but instead is killing them through incompetence - perhaps with a one night time delay. Or, to really mess with someone’s mind, make someone a doctor but keep telling them every night that they guessed correctly and stopped the killin’ villains, as the townies send each other to the lynching tree one by one.
AngeloftheDark’s voting for LH75 is OK as long as there is a tie (and there is one right now - unfortunately for them, she is the tie-ee) provided she (Angel) knows LH75’s role name (thus milking it, as Chronos warned us might happen), which would be reasonable for Scum. She can always unvote if it gets too close but for starters attention is deflected. This would assume LH75’s role name starts with a letter closer to the end of the alphabet.
To keep it in Shakespeare’s color: The Lady doth protest explain too much, methinks.
Glee stating en passant to be vanilla town in post #3 is perfectly on character for a chess player.
Thinking of it, both Thing.Fish and SunUp are slightly suspicious too. Not enough for a vote by a long stretch, all still very random. And I may be confusing weirdness with suspiciousness, but getting reactions is something!
Be very careful with this sort of assumption. Especially in a game like this, where there are explicitly only two “sides” in play, all it takes for the Villains to win is to get one of their number - just one - to be trusted enough to survive to the end. Any truism that gets ingrained over time (for example, “if Angel is a Villain than no more than one other person on this list is”) can be gamed to keep that critical single player alive through endgame.
@Thing.Fish, can you expand a little on the following statement - just explain how you see these roles as equally valuable for both sides?
roleblockers, watchers and trackers work well for both sides.
Similarly, @AngeloftheNorth, can you say a bit more about this? What about the two roles you named seems like a good fit to the color to you?
It does kind of feel like there could be a watcher or tracker in this game, seems to fit with the color of some of the plays.
Meanwhile:
His early Vanilla claim gives me a very gentle Town lean on glee, as it suggests to me a new player exploring the game in his own way without outside guidance (of the sort that a Villain board might provide). Nothing probative, but he’s not on my suspicion list for today.
I feel similarly about Sun Up. I think most Villain boards would have cautioned him against that long jokey post about numbers of Villains, and certainly against the follow up post about a Vigilante - those sorts of posts come with huge risk of inadvertently revealing hidden knowledge about the setup.
Obviously, both of those leans are moot if the Villain board is either made up entirely of inexperienced players or is unusually quiet. So they’re barely leans at all, but they are leans.
I wouldn’t say they’re equally valuable; for Town, such roles might stop a kill or catch a killer, whereas for Scum they can at best find or neutralize a Town PR. But it is fairly common in my experience to see roleblockers, watchers, or trackers of either alignment.
Did you read my post about why it’s bad to name claim?
Is this meant to indicate that you truly believe there are no Villains in this game?
I was thinking of Othello trying to spy on Desdemona when Iago plants suspicion in his head, and the fairies spying on the couples in Midsummernight’s Dream. Those seem like characters ripe for a tracker or watcher role.
So Glee claiming isn’t suspicious because of who he is as a person but my claim is suspicious because I’m not a chess player? Yes, I’m going to protest when you say something untrue. Get used to it, I’ve been told I’m like a dog with a bone.
I still think you’re Town but you seem determined to read everything I’m doing as Scum. Be careful of that; confirmation bias like that lost me a few Championships.
So the only thing I’m getting out of the vote count right now is that there are (very small) trains on me and on LH75.
I’m still not worried about Prof’s vote on me, I still think he’s town.
The second votes give me pause; I still think Pardel-Lux is Town and tunneling on me, but I am Town and he’s trying to connect me with LH75 in a way that doesn’t make sense. (LH75 defended me, so I guess that’s why he sees a connection, but the defense was of my being the first to vote seriously, and I agree with Mahaloth that this behavior almost always comes from Town.)
It makes me want to unvote LH75 on the off chance Pardel-Lux is a Villain, because Villains are going to look for bandwagons to jump on.
I know no one’s character name other than my own and the people/person who claimed them, and I very much don’t want to, nor will I share mine.
But when there are a few small bandwagons with a tie, they usually end up both being town, because if one of us were scum, someone would come along and try to start another bandwagon or pile onto the other one. (If we were both scum another bandwagon would have started by now.)
I guess I need help reading Pardel-Lux, his behavior seems very much like Town tunneling, but his logic leaps regarding me and LH75 are so unlikely as to seem strained- we’re both Villains and I’m bussing right out of the gate because I know I will survive because of the tie-breaker?
That makes no sense as a scum play, but also, it’s usually Town that makes arguments like this. Scum go for simple.
Sigh.
The problem with that sort of logic is that there’s still 36 hours until deadline, scum could well be biding their time. There’s no reason that any scum response to the current wagons would have had to have happened “by now”.
Pardel-Lux strikes me as mainly a new player trying to figure out how this works, but is posting more content than I’d expect a new scum player to, even though I don’t think much of what he’s saying makes sense.
I agree with most of what you’re saying but in my experience, if both LH75 and I were scum and the leading bandwagons, scum would be doing something about this already, even with 36 hours to go.
You’re right, though, Pardel-Lux would be playing a strange scum game if he’s scum. He’s probably Town but I wish he would stop asking for name claims.
Call it a double-down on my previous post.
But no, I don’t really think I’ve got Chronos figured out, but I certainly don’t think he’s bent on trolling every participant in this thread.
Perhaps it is an expression of my growing notion, based at least in part on my lack of experience at the game, that with such limited information as we can get from this forum, this will all come down to a few lucky shots in the dark. Is there such a thing as “typical town” or “typical scum” behavior in a solely text-based game? Pardon the play on words, but I just can’t see it.
So I feel very much adrift here in an epistemological sense, with no way of knowing what to do or who to trust, or how to build a “bandwagon” or “alliance”. Maybe it would be best for me to off myself and head over to the spectators thread to get an idea for what the disinterested are thinking about the action.
Yes, you made it after Bicycle_Bill reacted to my post about an alphabetical list of name claims. Your post makes sense, I will stick to it.
Your wish is my command. In fact, I have only mentioned name claims once, it is easy to stop. It was in the context of a possible alphabetical concordance between board names and game names. One example seems enough to put this hypothesis to rest: Bicycle_Bill and Hyppolita are not that close in the alphabet.
I don’t think you should off yourself because the game is confusing, especially if you’re Town. But to answer your question, no, it’s not fumbling around in the dark for the whole game.
It starts like that, but as time goes on we get more information, and are able to deduce more based on who voted for whom on previous days. Powers sometimes get information that helps. Death reveals give information too- when you know someone who died is Town, you can look more carefully at the people who pushed them to see if their arguments seem sincere or forced. If they flip Villain, you can see if they seem aligned with someone else, or conversely, if they seemed to have purposely distanced themselves from someone else, both of which can be scum tells.
There are some scum tells, yes, and also some town ones. They’re not absolute, but they’re patterns.
The joy in the game for town (besides the friendships that have grown, which I am genuinely grateful for) is in deducing the correct answers over time by piecing together the clues.
The joy for scum is in fooling people successfully.
I hope that you’ll stay, whatever alignment you are, and get to experience some of that fun.
Okay, thank you. It’s not that I think you’re fixated on the names, I know you were just exploring the idea of their use in the tie-breaker, but it really would be harmful to have more people claim their names now.
This is something we sometimes employ successfully (a mass claim) later in the game because it boxes the villains in.
I mentioned in post #3 that I am Travers (never heard of him!)
Although I haven’t played Mafia here for around 10 years, I have watched the UK TV program The Traitors - BBC iPlayer, which is a live version.
From there I saw one Villain sneakily lynch another Villain 
, which leads me to expect at least 2 Villains in this game (but certainly not 5+ and probably not 4.)