Yeah, assuming we started with three villains, we went into last night at 8v1, which would seem to be an epic comeback for the baddies.
Nobody wants to be the New York Yankees of 2004, or Atlanta Falcons of 2017, or AC Milan of 2005, right?
Well I disagree with that, not all Shakespearean characters are genuinely good or horribly bad.
King Lear was a complex character whose arrogance chased his daughter away. He’s considered a villainous hero.
Lady Macbeth was crazy and lead Macbeth to kill people. Was she a villain or just mentally ill?
Othello is considered good and bad
Brutus Et Tu?
Some characters are misleading and could lead a name cop down a misguided path.
Could be. I’m guessing Chronos stayed away from those. So far, we’ve had Macbeth and Angelo, both main characters and both unambiguously villains. Perhaps Iago is our final villain?
Everyone is either a major character, a minor character, or a villain. Major and minor characters have the town win condition, and villains have the villain win condition. That doesn’t leave room for anyone else.
Right. I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say that this game started out very badly for Team Villain. If they do come back from that start, well, that’d be pretty epic.
Rest assured that I already made all of the relevant decisions before I even rolled up role assignments, so it doesn’t really matter who I’m rooting for, as I no longer have any say in the outcome.
Oh, I know, didn’t mean to imply otherwise!
I think my possibly cockamamie meta-game supposition is this: one of the reasons that it would appear that “the game started very badly for Team Villain” was that Angel’s investigation was redirected from Mahaloth to Thing Fish, revealing the latter as a Villain. But I think that perception only makes sense if the initial investigation would not have revealed Villain, meaning that the redirection made a meaningful difference - suggesting that perhaps Mahaloth is not a Villain. Grasping at straws, maybe.
Right.
So, a Town Power redirected the Town Cop from Mahaloth to a Scum.
It beggars credibility for me to think that Mahaloth would be Scum at this point.
I didn’t read it that way.
I think N1 catching a scum plus the Vig killing a scum on N1 was an awesome start for town regardless of who or what Mahaloth is.
Getting any scum on N1 is a win for Town let alone 2/3
I thought I read that some players said they had no idea what there power was?
So maybe Pardel didn’t know whether Mahaloth or Thing were Villains.
Which leaves Angel investigating Mahaloth as a breadcrumb…
So from my perspective Powers seem to be related in some way to the person’s role.
Pardel’s character caused chaos and pranks and makes a mistake putting a love spell on the wrong person.
LH was Banquo whose character was also a ghost.
Angel was Hamlet - I don’t know how that related to a cop, so that kind of breaks the theory.
Hamlet knew a hawk from a handsaw.
There you go. So there’s how Hamlet is a cop. He can discern truth from falsehood. I couldn’t remember Hamlet enough to make the connection.
I agree - but the connection may not be obvious (and this supports my theory that Major Town don’t know their powers.)
I believe Hamlet vowed to investigate a death (his father?)
Not exactly. In Act 1, Scene 1, his father’s ghost shows up and tells him his uncle Claudius murdered him. Hamlet spends the play wishing to avenge his father, but isn’t sure he wasn’t being tricked by a demon in his father’s image. So he eventually hits on the idea of rrewriting a play that his family will all see, and then he finally believes. He doesn’t actually do anything, but he believes.
Long post forthcoming.
Day One final vote (copied and edited from Chronos’ post at #289 that Day. I’ve left out a few one-off votes (including my own) and deleted all of the post numbers for clarity of presentation.
Known Villains are bold faced. Known Town are italicized. I’ve italicized myself, because I know myself to be Town and it’s my attempt at analysis, but others can and should consider me unconfirmed.
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LH75 (8) - AngeloftheNorth, Pardel-Lux, glee, DemonTree, Prof.Pepperwinkle, Mahaloth, Thing.Fish, storyteller0910
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Mahaloth (4) - SunUp, Pardel-Lux, DemonTree, Biotop
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Bicycle Bill (2) - Dizzymrslizzy, Prof.Pepperwinkle
Let’s talk about how LH75 ended up on the gallows, and a bit about the other voting movements throughout the day. The first vote for LH75 came from Angel early in the Day, and then nothing for around 100 posts.
In the meanwhile, Prof.P did a poke vote of SunUp, who responded with what we used to call an OMGUS vote. Null tell, especially from a new player, but then Thing.Fish added a vote on Prof. P in short order. I am a bit skeptical that Thing.Fish does this if Prof.P is a fellow Villain – it could easily have resulted in a fast and ugly bandwagon on Prof.P for no real reason. Storyteller (c’est moi!) added a third vote on Prof. P shortly after. Prof.P pulls her vote on SunUp at this point.
Glee’s vote for LH75 happens at 243, along with a vote for DemonTree. This puts both of them at 3 votes, resulting in a 3-way tie for first among LH75, DemonTree, and Prof.P.
At 250, Thing.Fish unvotes DemonTree and Prof.P; DemonTree will never again be in serious peril during Day One. Mahaloth comes along and replaces that vote on Prof.P for her cryptic earlier vote. SunUp unvotes Prof.P and votes Mahaloth (the first vote for Mahaloth).
SunUp’s behavior in this sequence feels odd to me – jumping from voting for Prof.P to voting for Mahaloth because Mahaloth voted for Prof.P is a pretty wild inconsistency. The thing is, I’m not sure it looks particularly Villainous to me; unless SunUp and Prof.P are Villains together and working a pretty impressive two-handed con, SunUp’s actions here make no sense as a Villain.
Pardel-Lux votes Mahaloth at 262 (“scummy vibes”), and DemonTree votes for both Mahaloth and LH75. At this moment, the score is Mahaloth 3, LH75 4.
Biotop votes for Mahaloth at 265 with reasoning that I disliked then and dislike now: “I do not like this vote. Scum do not generally do anti-town things on Day 1.” This puts Mahaloth and LH75 into a tie. If Mahaloth is a Villain, this is a very aggressive early play by Biotop – it could easily have resulted in Mahaloth’s banishment – especially given that Mahaloth tends to get yeeted early and Biotop knows that well.
Prof.P votes for LH75 explicitly to protect Mahaloth, and Mahaloth defensively unvotes Prof.P and votes LH75 as well. If Mahaloth turns out to be a Villain (I really don’t think he is, but I am, again, often wrong), I think Prof.P could be one as well.
Finally, Thing.Fish and subsequently storyteller (me) add the votes that essentially doom LH75. My own vote was motivated both by lack of suspicion of Mahaloth and most especially by LH75’s lack of a defense; I really, really thought that looked like a caught-out Villain keeping his mouth shut so as not to risk revealing the wrong thing.
So where does this leave us? For the moment, my strongest suspicions are with the following two players:
- DemonTree – her vote for both of the leading candidates isn’t that big of a deal – if Mahaloth turns out to be Town is does look like someone hedging their bets, but that’s a pretty weak tell. More notable to me, though, is Thing.Fish choosing to go after her early, only to pull his vote at a key moment, leaving her safe. This is essentially true of Prof.P as well, but there are less ancillary factors leading to suspcion there.
- Dizzymrslizzy – The only living player who stayed out of the LH75 / Mahaloth discussion altogether, instead giving only a semi-one-off vote on Bicycle Bill that amounted to little more than a lurker vote. In a game with multi-vote, I like that very not much.
Vote Dizzymrslizzy
Vote DemonTree
Also, have we reached the point where a mass claim might be useful?
I’m enjoying your analysis, but my gender is male.
I don’t think I’ve ever played a game with Dizzy where I didn’t think she leaned Scum. She feels the same way about me.
I have learned that this is probably an error, and I need something of substance before I vote for her.
I’ll consider where I’m voting tonight, and place them tomorrow.
Sorry about that!
I posted In N1 my reasoning for not liking the LH wagon for a few reasons. 1 it happened really easily and fast, and 2) in post 277 it looked like some sort of partial crumb/claim. I’m on my phone right now I can’t grab it.
As for Mahaloth- Him and Angel I try not to vote D1 because I always read them wrong. I pushed on him towards EOD for a weak vote but it wasn’t enough to lay a real vote down.
To think I was relieved about that! But I could potentially have ended up like LH75 if he hadn’t removed it, except without the ghostly powers.
I know you’re wrong about me, but the argument about Biotop voting for Mahaloth is fairly convincing. Unless you’re both villains and you’re trying to save him.
I’ve gone back and forth on Mahaloth, and I’m currently feeling less suspicious of him. Dizzymrslizzy ignoring Mahaloth and LH75 and wrongly accusing BicycleBill is at least a little odd.
Similarly, maybe you are suspicious for accusing me, but I didn’t have any prior reason to suspect you.
I want to review the Day 1 and 2 threads myself before voting, though.