storyteller wants me dead because I’ve already said I’m Bianca, and that’s pretty much at the start alphabetically.
I found this in the Mafia Wikipedia entry:
Other variations add the trait that if the Vigilante kills an innocent they either lose the ability to kill or die from guilt the next night.
Which actually fits what appears to have happened: the presumed vigilante first killed a villain, then the second night killed a townie, and on the third night, died. But this would have been a pretty unfair thing to do in a game where roles are not explained.
Something else I’m not sure about: if the vigilante is targeted by mafia, do they normally still get their kill? Is there a standard order in which night actions are resolved? I think there was in Werewolf, but I can’t remember.
storyteller0910 1 (Prof.Pepperwinkle 11)
Prof.Pepperwinkle 1 (storyteller0910 16)
- It’s a fine vote. I’ve voted for people with much less of a case.
- This is Scum looking for reasons to find Scummitude in Town. My assumption that there’s only one Scum (which may not be the case, granted) is based on the conversations everyone has had here over the course of the game, and our Moderator saying he was rooting for them because they’re the underdog. (At least at one point in the game.) It seems much more likely to me that there is one and not two.
Again: you made a mistake; I voted on the mistake. Mafia 101.
Scattered thoughts on Monday morning:
- On the whole, I’m sort of disinterested in going back and forth with Prof.P. I think the quality of his arguments speaks for itself, and if I’m going to end up banished because I was incorrect about someone’s gender there’s not much to be done about that. I think he’s probably a Villain, for the aforementioned reasons and because of his sudden ramp up of aggressiveness (and strident-ness) today.
- @DemonTree - while every game is different, in most games I’ve played the Vigilante would still get his or her final kill even if they themselves were killed that Night. That variant is an interesting possibility, and would explain what we’ve seen (I honestly cannot understand why dizzy would have killed SunUp having been focused on Mahaloth and glee while alive). Generally: DemonTree reads Town to me at this point, but not for any reason I can quantify.
- I feel like there’s probably some way we can use the alphabetical order trick to our advantage, but I keep turning it over in my mind and I can’t get hold of it. I am willing to reveal my role name, but if the consensus is that it’s better to stay quiet I will refrain.
I see no way to use it; it’s just a game mechanism and not one that provides any advantage.
We know it is one, right? The whole guessing/prediction game on the scum-numbers is over. It’s 1 or the game would have ended. I think we can say for sure it is 1 and this is LyLo.
I’m leaning towards storyteller, but I can’t put forward entirely why. Sometimes it feels like the talking he is doing is guarded and only pretend strategy, something a scum has to pretend to do.
Vote storyteller0910
I think the most likely possibility: the remaining villain is a redirector, and redirected Dizzy’s hit onto SunUp, while targeting Dizzy directly. I did some research, and apparently there are two kinds of redirectors: one where you redirect actions targeted at one player onto another (regardless which player they come from), and another where you redirect actions done by a particular player (regardless who they are targeted towards) onto a specific player. If we have the first type, it would tend to implicate Mahaloth, as, knowing there was a vig, the villain would surely want to redirect actions away from themself. But if it’s the second type, AFAICS it doesn’t tell us much.
I think you should stay quiet for now.
It’s pretty obvious how to use the alpha order: lynch the player with the lowest name alphabetically, so the villain doesn’t have an easy choice who to kill tonight, and may lose the tie breaker with the one remaining townie tomorrow. It may be a vain hope, though. Didn’t someone say earlier that a lot of Shakespeare villains have names beginning with A?
They did, and it’s possible, but Iago hasn’t shown up yet, and if there’s a Villain in Shakespeare, it’s him.
I don’t agree. I am certain that we can puzzle something out; it wasn’t just thrown in as an afterthought, not by Chronos of all people.
We know it is one, right? The whole guessing/prediction game on the scum-numbers is over. It’s 1 or the game would have ended. I think we can say for sure it is 1 and this is LyLo.
Again, I don’t agree with either of these things, and I’m not sure why you assume either. Suppose there are two remaining Villains. That means there are two Villains and two Town players remaining, and the Villains do not win until they control the voting - which they do not given the current tiebreaking rules.
Similarly, suppose there is only one Villain left. If we banish a non-Villain today, and they murder a non-Villain toNight, we will be left at 1 Town player and 1 Villain, at which point - I’m figuring this out in real time, y’all, this is fun - the alphabetical order thing comes into play! Because if (hypothetically) the two players left are a Town Antony and a Villain Iago, the Town wins, right? Each player votes for the other, and based on the tie-breaker Antony lives.
Right, which is why you’re voting for me, 'cause I’m Bianca.
I don’t find your reason at all convincing, but I also suspect Storyteller. I didn’t like his(?) late vote for glee Yesterday. Although I voted for both, by the end of the day I thought Mahaloth was clearly the better choice, and since they were tied I was considering unvoting glee when Story stepped in with what I felt was unconvincing reasoning.
I think it was just a quick decision.
Oh…you are right. I think it is possible, but not likely. Yeah, I was wrong here.
Ooh, this is fascinating. I’m not sure I’ve ever been in this exact situation before - where I’m innocent, it’s endgame, and I have somehow made everyone suspicious of me. It’s not a great feeling!
It’s funny, because with perfect knowledge of my own alignment, it’s looking more and more likely now that Prof.P is a Villain.
To Mahaloth and DemonTree, who I am increasingly confident are not (I think Prof.P’s blithe assumption that there is only one Villain left is a real Scum slip - it’s not just that he assumed it, it’s the total confidence with which he did so:
Note how Prof.P started from a very silly “Scum tell” - that I inadvertently misgendered him as a player - and has transitioned to a much more assertive, aggressive, and definitive posture toDay. Note how his tone has changed - there is blood in the water, and he feels it. Best guess: his name is not Bianca, but it is something high up in the alphabet. He knows he will win a tie vote with either of you, but he can’t be sure about me, so he has to eliminate me to guarantee a win toMorrow. Just read his posts - really read them - and see if you see the shift. This is a Villain who sees the win entirely in hand, and is willing to gamble on being aggressive to try to grab it.
In the interest of full disclosure, here is my role PM (between the dashed lines):
You are Cardinal Bourchier, a minor character.
CARDINAL
My lord of Buckingham, if my weak oratory
Can from his mother win the Duke of York,
Anon expect him here; but if she be obdurate
To mild entreaties, God in heaven forbid
We should infringe the holy privilege
Of blessèd sanctuary! Not for all this land
Would I be guilty of so deep a sin.
- Richard III, Act 3, scene 1, lines 38-44
I reveal this now because I must acknowledge that what I say of Prof.P is also true of me; I will win a tiebreaker with either of you (assuming that you are both being honest, obviously, but I guess I’m putting all my eggs in that basket because if either of you is not, Town is screwed).
I think it is inevitable that either Prof.P or I will be eliminated toDay. If it’s me, Town will lose. If it’s Prof.P… well, I can’t guarantee how that will go, because I lack the certainty of perfect knowledge. But I’m happy with my reasoning.
Prof.P has said that he “looks for small mistakes.” My Mafia philosophy has always been: look for players trying to generate unnatural outcomes. Look for players who are opportunistic at key moments. So of @Mahaloth and @DemonTree I’m just going to ask this: look back at my posts, and Prof.P’s posts, over the last two game Days. Decide which of us seems most like we’re trying to manipulate the situation, take advantage of events to create an unnatural outcome, and make use of knowledge that others don’t have (notice that Prof.P was thinking about role names early on, almost as if he realized before the rest of us that they would play a key role in this particular endgame). Ask any questions you want; I’ll answer. And if at the end you decide it’s me, so be it.
Also, to @DemonTree: I understand why my late vote for glee looked suspicious to you. Ultimately it came down to a choice between Mahaloth and glee, and I had little read on glee while I thought Mahaloth was much less likely to be a Villain. Ultimately, voting for glee to save Mahaloth in that spot only makes sense as a Scum tell if you believe that both Mahaloth and I are Villains.
But I always try to “generate unnatural outcomes”. Heck, my blurb over at the Giraffe boards is Shenanigangster. When Scum find themselves in unfamiliar waters, they give themselves away more often.
As far as being more aggressive, yes, we’re at LyLo. End games call for more drastic measures.
Important note:
Due to another commitment on Thursday, I will not be able to end the Day at the usual time (11:30 EDT). Please state in this thread if you would prefer to end early (approx. 9:00 AM EDT), later (approx. 4:00 PM), or if you have no preference.
No preference.
No preference - do whatever is easiest for you.
I’m off on holiday (to New England) today, so I’m more likely to be free and have access to the internet at 9am.
No preference from me.