The event, perhaps (although I don’t tend to brush off drunk driving that cavalierly). His reaction to it, on the other hand, had nothing to do with bad luck.
There’s nothing unlucky about having an accident while driving drunk. Doing that is nothing more or less than begging for it.
Ahh. obviously there’s the diffference between Bush/ Dick & Ted. :rolleyes:
exactly.
OK, now I’m confused about what your point is here.
Did I say that? Where?
The kicker for me is the sentiment mentioned upthread have of rejoicing in it (note: I haven’t read the linked post by Shodan and cast no judgement on it). I just don’t have that bone in me, I reckon. I might not hold “all human life sacred” but I’m not going to throw a party if my enemy dies. It just feels wrong.
Wow.
This is going to bite me in the butt later… and I’ll probably be labled a Nazi here, but I feel that even as terrible as Hitler was, the loss of his life was still at it’s core a bad thing. Though in this case I’m also more sorry he thought the way he did as well, whatever odd combination of personal mental… notrightednessitude… and surrounding environment made him think the way he did was tragic, think of it like a very long, strange illness where the patient and those around him don’t know he was sick but it still ended tragically and painfully for everyone involved. (I.E. though relatively impossible the “cure” would be to convince him to change how he thought, like some illnesses were once uncurable this one was similar, unchangable).
I’m not saying Hitler was a good person, or that his death didn’t have positive effects on the world, just like your boss’ death, however bad, still opens up that CEO position for someone else to get promoted to. I’m just saying at its core, the loss of life, and suffering of the life and effects on the people around it was a bad thing.
Basically I just feel like celebrating the death or affliction of those you disagree with basically makes you a dick (even if those disagreements come down to actions that are atrocious in your, or most people’s, views). I’m probably just weird though.
Being born in the early 60s I always thought that the stories friends (even Republican ones) told me about how people said they didn’t care or even approved of when JFK or RFK were murdered must have been misremembered. I see that once again I am probably wrong. I’m going to download this whole thread and save it. This thread is the saddest thing I have ever read about my country.
Every piece of legislation that Edward M. Kennedy authored and got passed and signed into law, and he did that more than any other legislator in this nation’s history, was passed by a majority of the House, a filibuster-secure majority in the Senate and signed by the President into law. A piece of legislation secure from filibuster represents a super-majority of at least 60 or 66 percent of the States, and often a great deal more of the population. To see people be so contemptuous of all the people’s representatives as to say that Kennedy did great damage to this country through his service to use as a Senator is most unfortunate. As for his most unfortunate accident in which Mary Jo Kopechne lost her life and Kennedy failed to report for far too long, the story related above that he never was convicted is untrue, he pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and received a two month suspended sentence. I hope that this never happens to anyone we know. It is also untrue that he has never apologized to the public or the family, he has done both as reported in the New York Times on July 18, 1994. The Kopechne family also received a settlement. Yes, Kennedy’s disease of alcoholism caused this accident in my opinion. I suppose what really disappoints me the most is that I get the distinct feeling that people who dislike Kennedy’s politics relish that this tragedy happened.
When a certain conservative writer died earlier this year, I certainly did not relish that he had a long heroin habit (which he was perfectly happy with having and as he and I might both have agreed is none of my business), but I gave him the respect that a learned opponent who contributed (in ways I wish no one had contributed) to our political process.
Are we really so immature that we do not give room for differences of opinion and for real human nature? Apparently so. And it bespeaks the danger to our republic when we cannot acknowledge when the other side has won majority votes, or when an opponent is mentioned the ad hominem is the first counter mention, even though four long decades have passed, and it truly was an incident as tragic to Kennedy as the murders of his brothers.
I continue to be nonplussed by not just the lack of charity by people allied politically with Christians in situations like these, but it shocks me to see the lack of civilized behavior by and large. When Nixon died, I reflected on his accomplishments and what could have been for such a gifted man, I certainly did not go out and publicly post for the world to see my lack of manners in mentioning how much I disagreed with his politics – after a civilized mourning period, I have the rest of my life to do that if I feel the need.
It’s not that I didn’t know that people felt this way about Kennedy, I always have. I am just so disappointed that so many of my fellow Americans are so poorly raised.
You have commented on this one way or another several times now. You are mistaken. Senator Kennedy did go before the public with an address on television about this very issue. I will see if I can find a transcript. To the best of my recollection, it was an apology for not handling the situation well, but it has been perhaps 38 years ago and I haven’t seen a replay.
Maybe his speech was given before you were born. I don’t think it is something he should have to give again and again.
The tragedy itself was in August of 1969. The bridge has rotted away.
I assume you hold the same contempt for Laura Bush. You are aware that she killed someone with an automobile, right? Drunk? No. Woefully negligent? You bet.
Or is that different? Would you mind if people attacked her, should she have the misfortune of developing brain cancer?
The Kennedy address was given to the people of Massachusetts on July 25, 1969, but was broadcast nation wide. (I was mistaken about the month.) It is also available on YouTube. These are some excerpts. They are better viewed in context:
A bunch of you guys need to lighten up. You guys are the kind of douchebags that are trying to shit all over the cafe society threads “Obama/McCain looks like the kind of guy who…”
ANYTHING can be funny. Even dead babies, holocaust victims, rape, and Ted Kennedy having a brain tumor. Shodan’s remarks were sarcastic, and sometimes funny, and even if you don’t agree it certainly isn’t worth it to get all righteous and bent out of shape for a pitting.
Do you feel that George W Bush has done great damage to this country during his public service as President? After all, everything he has done has been vetted and passed by those same men and women in Congress. Just curious.
Also, since I am the one who spoke of the damage that Kennedy has done to our nation, I assume that these comments are at least tangentially addressed to me, so I would ask you this: I clearly differentiated between Kennedy-the-man suffering from a deadly disease (unlike our friend Brain Glutton who gleefully posted how he would wish pain and death upon someone he differed with politically), and Kennedy-the-politician who doggedly pursued laws and policies that I believe have been detrimental to the United States. Is it your expectation that because he is ill I should refrain from criticizing his politics? If so, why?
Back from work, wanted to address this:
“Hate.” Think about that word for a moment. Why the hell is hate entering this picture at all?
It’s basic human decency to not let fucking POLITICAL DIFFERENCES turn into so much hatred that you rejoice in another man’s suffering. It’s basic human decency to recognize that some things aren’t to be wished even on your worst enemy. It’s basic human decency to recognize that we all share in the human condition and that consequently rejoicing in this kind of shit harms us all.
And if you can’t understand that then I don’t know how else to fucking explain it.
On a related note, Shagnasty, you’re repugnant.
You’ve just described Elucidator, and he is not a troll. Just because you get pissed off doesn’t mean somebody was trying to do nothing more than piss you off.
I suppose you're right about the humour potential. The problem I've noticed is once you squeeze yourself into the place that understands it you end up warped.
What disturbs me about this thread isn't lack of empathy for Ted Kennedy but failing to consider some people don't see it as a time for laughter.
But to those who sodomise for sport those on their deathbed are easy release.
Regards,
Carson O’Genial
anyone who drives drunk risks the tragic accident. anyone -including Bush, Cheany (twice). See also comments about Laura Bush’s accidental killing, and the fact you’re incorrect about the apology.
Oh, ok, I see what you are saying now. You are right that many people get away with drunk driving, but I fail to see how that excuses anyone else. Anyway, as I mentioned before, it’s not so much the fact that it happened, but what he did about it afterwards that I think it inexcusable. As far as I know, Laura Bush did not run from the scene of the accident, preventing her friend who was killed a chance to be saved. Also, if I recall correctly, the police report did not say she was under the influence.
Regarding his apology, mea culpa on my forgetting about his speech (I was born at the time, Zoe, but I was very very young!) Being sorry isn’t just about apologizing, though. It’s about repentancy and retribution. Who of us would be able to use a speech on television as a “get out of jail free” card? Is that justice, that the rich and powerful can do so, but the rest of the world has to answer for our “mistakes?”
Why do you think there is no statute of limitations on murder?