Shodan, this is a disgusting attitude

I think the overwhelming majority of us would use whatever resources we had at our disposal to reduce our punishment. If you hire a good lawyer who can get you a lighter sentence than the overworked public defender, is that morally wrong? Because that is using your superior resources to mitigate your punishment.

Kennedy paid out nearly $100,000 to the family, lost his chance to ever be President (which was a good one), and has spent nearly forty years being called a murderer. I don’t think you can say he wasn’t punished; he just never went to jail.

Serious question: had the serious taboo attached to drunk driving by that point? My understanding was that it has been illegal for a long time but that it wasn’t a huge deal to drive after you’d had a few until MADD’s efforts made it so. Had that happened by then? Not that it makes things better or worse; just curious.

[QUOTE=DoctorJ]
Serious question: had the serious taboo attached to drunk driving by that point? My understanding was that it has been illegal for a long time but that it wasn’t a huge deal to drive after you’d had a few until MADD’s efforts made it so. Had that happened by then? Not that it makes things better or worse; just curious.
[/QUOTE]

Good points and to answer your question, the drunk driver taboo did not become serious until later. I would say late 70s early 80s. Bush had his own non-lethal incident in the early 70s and the stories of Mickey Mantle wrecking his car and the cops just driving him home to sleep it off are fairly well known for the 50s and 60s.

Jim

Sorry I missed this earlier. Just to focus the discussion, could someone cut and paste the places where I mentioned that I was happy that Ted was sick?

Most of my posts to the thread were about the other Kennedys in and out of Congress.

Regards,
Shodan

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Well, you know, I don’t see Shodan doing any of that in that linked thread. He doesn’t seem to me to be hating, or rejoicing, or wishing anyone anything. He’s just not acting all that sorry…I don’t think you are characterizing his reaction accurately.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I’m seeing more of a non-reaction than a hateful or gleeful reaction. Shodan was speaking about Ted and the family in the same manner as he would have before the illness was made public.

Brain cancer is bad, certainly, but the initial prognosis is 1-5 years survival. Heck, he’s already 76 years old, you can practically give a 1-5 year survival rate based on nothing but his age and overall health. Maybe it’s unseemly to take shots at someone who has just gotten this news, but I don’t think all TK discussion now needs to be sunshine and puppydogs.

[QUOTE=Shodan]
Sorry I missed this earlier. Just to focus the discussion, could someone cut and paste the places where I mentioned that I was happy that Ted was sick?

Most of my posts to the thread were about the other Kennedys in and out of Congress.

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

Why do you even bother? Those that wish to label and judge you have already done so despite their own shortcomings. I’m sure your more than aware of your own intentions despite others attempts to inform you of such. Just stand tall and bear it. The hyenas will skulk off once the flesh is rendered from the bone. Remember the Samurai my friend.

If Shodan feels the need to defend himself, it’s partially my fault. I should not have projected my feelings or opinions onto him with my semi-hypothetical question in my first post here. As I said later, I see no hatred, glee, or any other such emotion from him in that thread.

Shodan, I’m sorry about my own mischaracterization of what you said.

[QUOTE=Shodan]
Sorry I missed this earlier. Just to focus the discussion, could someone cut and paste the places where I mentioned that I was happy that Ted was sick?

Most of my posts to the thread were about the other Kennedys in and out of Congress.

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

When one of your acquaintances in real life is seriously ill, do you rush to their hospital bed to let them know how rotten you think their family is? That’s how you came across in the other thread, from my point of view.

[QUOTE=The Second Stone]
Being born in the early 60s I always thought that the stories friends (even Republican ones) told me about how people said they didn’t care or even approved of when JFK or RFK were murdered must have been misremembered. I see that once again I am probably wrong. I’m going to download this whole thread and save it. This thread is the saddest thing I have ever read about my country.

Every piece of legislation that Edward M. Kennedy authored and got passed and signed into law, and he did that more than any other legislator in this nation’s history, was passed by a majority of the House, a filibuster-secure majority in the Senate and signed by the President into law. A piece of legislation secure from filibuster represents a super-majority of at least 60 or 66 percent of the States, and often a great deal more of the population. To see people be so contemptuous of all the people’s representatives as to say that Kennedy did great damage to this country through his service to use as a Senator is most unfortunate. As for his most unfortunate accident in which Mary Jo Kopechne lost her life and Kennedy failed to report for far too long, the story related above that he never was convicted is untrue, he pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and received a two month suspended sentence. I hope that this never happens to anyone we know. It is also untrue that he has never apologized to the public or the family, he has done both as reported in the New York Times on July 18, 1994. The Kopechne family also received a settlement. Yes, Kennedy’s disease of alcoholism caused this accident in my opinion. I suppose what really disappoints me the most is that I get the distinct feeling that people who dislike Kennedy’s politics relish that this tragedy happened.

When a certain conservative writer died earlier this year, I certainly did not relish that he had a long heroin habit (which he was perfectly happy with having and as he and I might both have agreed is none of my business), but I gave him the respect that a learned opponent who contributed (in ways I wish no one had contributed) to our political process.

Are we really so immature that we do not give room for differences of opinion and for real human nature? Apparently so. And it bespeaks the danger to our republic when we cannot acknowledge when the other side has won majority votes, or when an opponent is mentioned the ad hominem is the first counter mention, even though four long decades have passed, and it truly was an incident as tragic to Kennedy as the murders of his brothers.

I continue to be nonplussed by not just the lack of charity by people allied politically with Christians in situations like these, but it shocks me to see the lack of civilized behavior by and large. When Nixon died, I reflected on his accomplishments and what could have been for such a gifted man, I certainly did not go out and publicly post for the world to see my lack of manners in mentioning how much I disagreed with his politics – after a civilized mourning period, I have the rest of my life to do that if I feel the need.

It’s not that I didn’t know that people felt this way about Kennedy, I always have. I am just so disappointed that so many of my fellow Americans are so poorly raised.
[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the straight dope message board and thank you for posting that thoughtful reply. But when you mentioned a conservative writer w/ a heroin habit, who are you talking about? Though I might have an idea. Not that it matters, much. but still… wow.

[QUOTE=Mosier]
A bunch of you guys need to lighten up. You guys are the kind of douchebags that are trying to shit all over the cafe society threads “Obama/McCain looks like the kind of guy who…”

ANYTHING can be funny. Even dead babies, holocaust victims, rape, and Ted Kennedy having a brain tumor. Shodan’s remarks were sarcastic, and sometimes funny, and even if you don’t agree it certainly isn’t worth it to get all righteous and bent out of shape for a pitting.
[/QUOTE]

About three weeks ago, my mother died of a brain tumor similar to that diagnosed in Kennedy, one that was originally diagnosed in August 2007. She had her ups and downs during her last few months, and was not in great pain during most of that time, but things were not particularly easy for her, nor for her three children (including me) who had to take care of her during that time. The last week was especially difficult: having to pick her up by myself and help her to the bathroom after falling down; changing her after she became bedridden and could no longer move, feeding her morphine drips when she was clearly in distress but could no longer speak; and, in particular, the last few hours, when some reaction related to one of her medications caused her to start spewing foam everywhere every time she breathed out. My poor sister threw up twice while trying to deal with this. It was pretty gross, frankly.
Sorry, maybe it’s just my mood, but I don’t find anything particularly funny about Kennedy’s brain tumor. And I don’t much like the guy either. But hey, if that’s what gives you the chuckles, knock yourself out.

Shodan, I am specifically speaking of this:

So, in other words, with general ignorance and a gleeful tone of mocking cruelty, you despite to crack sicky jokes about his family. Please don’t insult me by pretending you didn’t intend it. Your tone and joy in his misfortune is clear. And I find it morally intolerable.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]
When one of your acquaintances in real life is seriously ill, do you rush to their hospital bed to let them know how rotten you think their family is?
[/QUOTE]
No. But then again, Ted Kennedy is not my acquaintance, and I rather doubt he reads the SDMB or ever will.

If you are suggesting that Ted Kennedy’s brain tumor means none of the rest of the public figures in his family can be criticized for their behavior, I disagree. This is especially true if they may run for public office.

No problem, of course.

Because I am an attention whore. :smiley:

Regards,
Shodan

[QUOTE=Weirddave]
The immigration “reform” that he sponsored and pushed through in the 60s has done more damage to this country than eight years of George W Bush’s freespending idiocy. The list goes on from there.
[/QUOTE]

I’d be curious to know more of the list. I’m a Kennedy fan, I confess I’m not familiar with the case against his policies on balance.

[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
How is it basic human decency to pretend to be sorry that someone you hate is dying?
[/QUOTE]

No one’s talking about pretending anything, but it is basic human decency in those circumstances to keep your big yap shut. (General “you,” not your personal yap, C.A..) A report of someone’s terminal illness is the perfect opportunity to apply Thumper’s Axiom.

[QUOTE=Jragon]
Basically I just feel like celebrating the death or affliction of those you disagree with basically makes you a dick (even if those disagreements come down to actions that are atrocious in your, or most people’s, views). I’m probably just weird though.
[/QUOTE]
I guess I’ll be ‘weird’ with you. I can’t understand this and it looks like I never will.

[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
Shodan, I am specifically speaking of this:

So, in other words, with general ignorance and a gleeful tone of mocking cruelty, you despite to crack sicky jokes about his family. Please don’t insult me by pretending you didn’t intend it. Your tone and joy in his misfortune is clear. And I find it morally intolerable.
[/QUOTE]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Regards,
Shodan

[QUOTE=Liberal]
You’ve just described Elucidator
[/QUOTE]

What? What I do to you? OK, I said your dog was ugly, but, hell, Lib a rottwieller-chihuahua blend? What were you thinking? And I may be a slut for the snarky one-liner, but are you really the one to say so? 'Cause, you know, just between us girls, you’re no better than you should be…

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Why do you think there is no statute of limitations on murder?
[/QUOTE]

Since nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together would think that Kennedy murdered anybody–a point I thought you had accepted upthread, but I guess I was wrong–this comment is well beside the point.

There is no place in the SDMB where we should rejoice in the ill health of others.

Well. Except for the dead pool thread. It totally belongs there.

[QUOTE=Shodan]

No problem, of course.Because I am an attention whore. :smiley:

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

How does that old saying go, any press is good press?

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Oh, ok, I see what you are saying now. You are right that many people get away with drunk driving, but I fail to see how that excuses anyone else. **Anyway, as I mentioned before, it’s not so much the fact that it happened, but what he did about it afterwards that I think it inexcusable. ** As far as I know, Laura Bush did not run from the scene of the accident, preventing her friend who was killed a chance to be saved. Also, if I recall correctly, the police report did not say she was under the influence. <snip>

[/QUOTE]

This one just makes me grind my teeth.

Know what? Despite lovely Laura’s saintly reaction, the victim was just as dead as if he had been drowned in the Chappaquiddick River.

So the reaction afterward is what was important? Not the death? Really?

Bullshit. Obviously, your mileage varies, and takes a sharp detour onto Missing Point Boulevard.