Shodan, this is a disgusting attitude

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=DoctorJ]
I think the overwhelming majority of us would use whatever resources we had at our disposal to reduce our punishment. If you hire a good lawyer who can get you a lighter sentence than the overworked public defender, is that morally wrong? Because that is using your superior resources to mitigate your punishment.
[/QUOTE]
I think that the fact that outcomes depend on one’s resources is morally problematic, although certainly it is a fact of life. I think that in the broad range of punishments one might expect receive for this particular event, he got off easily in the extreme.

$100,000 is a drop in the bucket to Ted Kennedy. It would be like me paying out $1000 or even less. I don’t think I’m going to lose much sleep over his not becoming President…that’s a privilege few enjoy, and most folks get along just find without it. And I’m sure he doesn’t like being called a murderer, but when you live in the public eye, people say all kinds of things. It’s kind of the price you pay.

Oh, yeah, I do think that people didn’t give it nearly the same kind of thought then that they do now.

But all of this is irrelevant, really…I’m not glad that he’s sick, and I hope he doesn’t suffer. I just am not going to pretend to admire him. Which is why I haven’t posted in any of the threads about his situation, actually.

[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew]
Since nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together would think that Kennedy murdered anybody–a point I thought you had accepted upthread, but I guess I was wrong–this comment is well beside the point.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was making was that when someone is killed prematurely, the effects on those around them last a long, long time. While I agree that this case can’t be called murder, I don’t think that the mere passage of time is sufficient reason to forgive and forget that someone was killed.

102

[QUOTE=Enfant Terrible]
This one just makes me grind my teeth.

Know what? Despite lovely Laura’s saintly reaction, the victim was just as dead as if he had been drowned in the Chappaquiddick River.

So the reaction afterward is what was important? Not the death? Really?

Bullshit. Obviously, your mileage varies, and takes a sharp detour onto Missing Point Boulevard.
[/QUOTE]
Please don’t damage your teeth on my account…I think you missed what I was saying. What I was referring to was his IMMEDIATE reaction, which, if it had been different, Mary Jo might be alive today. Don’t know for sure, but she might be. All of the recountings of that night, as I recall correctly, involve some kind of explanation of he and his friends trying to rescue her, but none of it involves any call to the authorities.

103

You know what, Sarah? Now that I’ve thought about it, I don’t hope you get gang-raped and then have your erstwhile conservative friends saying that you asked for it. But that was my initial emotional reaction to your posts.

Which might say two things: 1) it’s a good idea to slow down and think things over before acting. But 2) all of us have had enough regrets in our life to be able to sympathize with someone who made the wrong choice in a crisis situation.

104

[QUOTE=Polycarp]
You know what, Sarah? Now that I’ve thought about it, I don’t hope you get gang-raped and then have your erstwhile conservative friends saying that you asked for it. But that was my initial emotional reaction to your posts.

Which might say two things: 1) it’s a good idea to slow down and think things over before acting. But 2) all of us have had enough regrets in our life to be able to sympathize with someone who made the wrong choice in a crisis situation.
[/QUOTE]
On that note, see y’all later.

105

[QUOTE=Polycarp]
You know what, Sarah? Now that I’ve thought about it, I don’t hope you get gang-raped and then have your erstwhile conservative friends saying that you asked for it. But that was my initial emotional reaction to your posts.

Which might say two things: 1) it’s a good idea to slow down and think things over before acting. But 2) all of us have had enough regrets in our life to be able to sympathize with someone who made the wrong choice in a crisis situation.
[/QUOTE]

Neither of those choices is the chief thing that your post says. I expect vicious and meanspirited here in the Pit, Poly, but I’m very surprised to see it from you.

106

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Regarding his apology, mea culpa on my forgetting about his speech (I was born at the time, Zoe, but I was very very young!) Being sorry isn’t just about apologizing, though. It’s about repentancy and retribution. Who of us would be able to use a speech on television as a “get out of jail free” card? Is that justice, that the rich and powerful can do so, but the rest of the world has to answer for our “mistakes?”
[/QUOTE]

Assuming you haven’t quit the thread for good, may I ask, what could Kennedy have done after the fact to redeem himself in your eyes?

107

[QUOTE=elucidator]
He’s the conservative gadfly who pricks the hypocrisy of the liberal elitists. Maybe “prick” isn’t the exact word. On second thought, yeah, it is.
[/QUOTE]

If you’re a conservative, you’re better off arguing that hypocrisy is a good thing.

And who are the liberal “elitists” as opposed to the rank-and-file liberals?

108

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Oh, ok, I see what you are saying now. You are right that many people get away with drunk driving, but I fail to see how that excuses anyone else. Anyway, as I mentioned before, it’s not so much the fact that it happened, but what he did about it afterwards that I think it inexcusable. As far as I know, Laura Bush did not run from the scene of the accident, preventing her friend who was killed a chance to be saved. Also, if I recall correctly, the police report did not say she was under the influence.

[/quote]
Never claimed Laura was under the influence, however, she drove negligently, causing another’s death, was never prosecuted at all You’d linked negligent driving w/drunk driving. Kennedy was in fact prosecuted for leaving the scene of the accident. It seems to me that of the two, Laura was (by far) the least punished for her act.

You also miss my point about the drunk driving aspect of it. anyone who drives drunk runs the risk of causing another’s death. So, if one were being non partisan about it, one would harbor the same level of bile for Bush and Cheanys’ actions. Of course, collectively society has changed since way back then. Driving under the influence was not the high level societal faux pas it is now.

Anyhow while we’re at it, how about a cite for Kennedy being under the influence. Not rumor, not “he had to have been” but “he was shown to be” And unless you can demonstrate that as a fact, you probably shouldn’t continue to assert that he was.

What he did was drove off a dark narrow bridge in the middle of nowhere. He was able to get out of the car, the other person was not. It’s likely that unless there had been a gaggle of rescue folks on site, that poor woman would have drowned. This was prior to cell phones - Kennedy would have had to find his way to a phone in the middle of nothing in the middle of the night, and rescue folks would have had to get there immediately. People can’t survive underwater for any long length of time. REgardless of his post accident actions, it’s likely she’d have died.

You keep hollaring about murder. Frankly it’s a rare case, even today, that some one who drives poorly resulting in a death is prosecuted for murder. It was almost unheard of then.

109

[QUOTE=Miller]
Assuming you haven’t quit the thread for good, may I ask, what could Kennedy have done after the fact to redeem himself in your eyes?
[/QUOTE]

Since she appears to have flounced off permanently, let this extremely lapsed Catholic voice her opinion. He could have gone to Confession (we still called it that, back in my day) & been absolved from his sin. That would have redeemed him in God’s eyes–for that sin, at least. If you’re a believer, that is…

110

[QUOTE=sqweels]
And who are the liberal “elitists” as opposed to the rank-and-file liberals?
[/QUOTE]
Obama. Duh.

:wink:

Regards,
Shodan

111

[QUOTE=Weirddave]
Do you feel that George W Bush has done great damage to this country during his public service as President? After all, everything he has done has been vetted and passed by those same men and women in Congress. Just curious.

Also, since I am the one who spoke of the damage that Kennedy has done to our nation, I assume that these comments are at least tangentially addressed to me, so I would ask you this: I clearly differentiated between Kennedy-the-man suffering from a deadly disease (unlike our friend Brain Glutton who gleefully posted how he would wish pain and death upon someone he differed with politically), and Kennedy-the-politician who doggedly pursued laws and policies that I believe have been detrimental to the United States. Is it your expectation that because he is ill I should refrain from criticizing his politics? If so, why?
[/QUOTE]

Well, I’ll accept the invitation to go off topic and talk about Bush, and this other things. If I am still around when George Bush passes, I’ll keep my mouth shut for a week and find something nice to say. He did, after all, sign the no call list bill, for which I am grateful. I am well aware that Congress as gone along with virtually everything he has done, most of which seemed to me at the time of passage would result in huge deficits and neverending war and civil war in Iraq. From where I was standing, these mistakes were obvious at the time they were made and my frustration at Congress abandoning it’s obligation to check and balance the President may be even greater than my frustration at Bush. He is just one person who clearly doesn’t have an alternate viewpoint available in his inner circle. Congress, with the exception of Robert Byrd and Barbara Lee stood by idly.

My comments are not directed at any one person. The whole tone of the thread together has a “ding-dong the witch is dead” attitude from many posters. It comes off as evil.

I also rambled a bit because I truly do not understand the viewpoint that Kennedy’s work has been bad for the country. But my education on that is for another thread I suppose.

112

[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Since she appears to have flounced off permanently
[/QUOTE]
I’m not flouncing off in the sense that I think you mean it. It’s just that when someone I have always respected tells me that what I’ve said was so awful that his first thought is that he hopes I get gang raped, it’s time to reflect a little bit, that’s all.

113

I guess we will have to just disagree then. I don’t think much of Ted Kennedy, maybe, but I can’t encourage hate.

114

[QUOTE=Jodi]
No one’s talking about pretending anything, but it is basic human decency in those circumstances to keep your big yap shut. (General “you,” not your personal yap, C.A..)
[/QUOTE]

It seem like it’s not, because all throughout history, you see examples of cultures where things like revenge are important cultural traits. A lot of societies would agree with Ghenghis Khan (and Conan the Barbarian) that what is best is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their woman." The idea that one should be magnanamous toward an enemy isn’t a human trait, it’s a trait in our culture.

115

[QUOTE=Miller]
Assuming you haven’t quit the thread for good, may I ask, what could Kennedy have done after the fact to redeem himself in your eyes?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe devoting the rest of his life to improving the lot of those who weren’t born with his wealth, status, and name.

Oh wait, he did that. Never mind. (That’s addressed to SarahFeena, not Miller.)

Also I hope WeirdDave does give the list – I really am geniunely curious to know what he’s talking about.

116

El_Kabong, my deepest condolences for your loss. I can’t imagine your heartbreak. May your grief be tempered by loving memories of your mother.

As to the subject of this thread, all I’ll say is that I’m never surprised by Shodan’s trollish thread-shitting in GD. Par for the course. 'Nuf said.

117

Shodan, I rarely agree with you, but you are almost always entertaining. I don’t think you deserved a pitting for your comments in the other thread, and many other Dopers would have totally blown a fuse in this thread. Bravo, sir.

118

[QUOTE=Shayna]
El_Kabong, my deepest condolences for your loss. I can’t imagine your heartbreak. May your grief be tempered by loving memories of your mother.
[/QUOTE]

Likewise. Condolences and warmest wishes.

119

Still trying to imagine Sarahfeena “flouncing” at all, permanently or otherwise. Can’t do it. Nope.

120

[QUOTE=Ghanima]
Shodan, I rarely agree with you, but you are almost always entertaining. I don’t think you deserved a pitting for your comments in the other thread, and many other Dopers would have totally blown a fuse in this thread. Bravo, sir.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Maybe I can blow a fuse later - that might be entertaining too.

Regards,
Shodan