Shooting at Virginia Tech

I won’t further derail this thread with my anti-mandatory medical testing agenda. People here and all over the world are busy searching for solutions, and prevention. Blame will not prevent another murder; but these constructive conversations might.

The kids and the teachers at VT did the right thing. They noticed aberrant behavior, and complained, then took action. Someone did attempt to intervene. Perhaps Cho should have been locked up after his first counseling session; but perhaps he was just crafty enough to keep an evil agenda hidden. We can’t turn back the clock.

But what is happening now, and what happened after Columbine, can be effective. Reach out to someone who appears to be lonely or isolated. Offer assistance to someone who appears to be detached or angry. Don’t be afraid or ashamed to associate with someone who acts a little weird, or a little odd.

Lord Il Palazzo, what you are doing now is kind and productive. Keep checking on your classmates, keep checking in with us, and if you come up with any ideas or solutions, please share them. There are angry, lonely people all over that could benefit from your insight. Thank you so much for taking the time to update us. My heart and my thoughts are with you all.

Well stated, Beaucarnea. I know it will always feel like we are closing the barn door after the horse runs away, but who knows what would continue to happen if we don’t try to make things better.

I don’t think anyone suggested that psych evaluations be mandatory and then submitted to our potential schools or friends or employers. I don’t want any other part of my medical history available to anyone other than my doctor(s), and information about my psychological health isn’t any different. But the sad reality is that people who need help the most oftentimes don’t have the ability to get it for themselves, or even to realize they need it. So to recommend mental health check-ups is not bad. From what I understand at this point in time, the shooter never actually went to counseling or took medication. It was suggested to him by several people, but he refused.

Clearly, your version of this would be ill conceived.

Yeah. I hadn’t cried at all over this until I read that; I just shed a few. Very striking image, especially to a college student like me that sees her classmates’ ears glued to cellphones 24/7. I felt horror at the whole situation but I could vividly picture this.

Glad to see our resident VA Tech student is okay - my thoughts are with you and your friends/classmates and their families.

Did you read somewhere where it said he was upper-middle-class? Because if you’re basing it off of where he lived, you’d be way wrong. That’s basically the same neighborhood I lived in and it’s not upper-middle-class. The houses are expensive, but that’s the DC suburb area in general. This neighborhood is where the people who can’t afford to live in the better areas live.

Hmm. Typically, the LA majors I’ve encountered tend to exaggerate my level of engineering…I’m a mechanical engineer, but to hear most people talk you would think I double majored in mechanical and nuclear, with a minor in chemical. The worst I ever hear is “That’s too hard! How can you do that??”

My initial thought was that he was an aerospace grad student who snapped. It sounds like he was shooting up a bunch of language classes, yet engineering professors were killed…I guess the details are still a bit muddled at this point.

I knew a few people at Virginia Tech through the local ASME chapter…they should have all graduated by now though.

A bit off topic…the TV at work (a shiny new plasma) has been set on CNN since the story broke. While we were viewing a safety video today, it was noted that an image of CNN’s “breaking news” bar had been ‘burned’ into the bottom of the screen.

This post:

Incredibly hurts and saddens me a great deal. :frowning:

What exactly have you done? That makes this sadden you. Without jumping headfirst into something quite as Orwellian as what Beaucarnea proposed, I rather agree with it.

If true, I hate this guy a tiny bit more. But given his writing, I think this level of wordplay and semi-obscure reference is unlikely.

**
Christopher**, maybe we should start a separate thread, but please consider just one point of this slippery slope: disability insurance. Pre-existing medical conditions can prevent many deserving citizens from getting insurance coverage. But many mental and emotional health conditions are temporary, conditional, treatable and preventable- and most important: unquantifiable. Calculating risk based on potential mental health concerns would be an ethical nightmare, and a statistical gamble. In this country, people do not have access to universal healthcare. We do not need to limit coverage based on what-ifs.

You start the thread, but I’ll have you know I agree with everything you’ve said. I just don’t see those things being part of a good system. You can’t adequately do psychanalysis if insurance companies are going to be looking at these things. Nobody can look at these things, but the doctor.

Because I suffer from some really problematic mental problems (bi-polar, severely depressed, panic attack riddled, constantly suicidal and agoraphobic, just to name some of what I’ve been dealing with for the past decade) and, as others have intimated, it follows you. Oh how it does. If employers get wind, all your decisions may be questioned and folks wonder if you’re about to go off the rails. Your family can think that there’s something causing these things other than chemical imbalances and the like. We lose relationships, hopes, dreams and pretty damn near everything in between. Can you imagine that saddled to just a kid? An eldery driver when that can no longer get a permit/license to go where they need to? Especially if they have no other options. And we are not even the criminally insane, not even close. But the world views them the same, certainly right now. :frowning: Unfortunately, that’s doubly not fair …

That’s just a taste and Og knows when someone suffers from this, we’re already stigmatized enough. Unless of course we hide or deny it. It sucks all the way around, for everyone, those by extension included.

Now I’m no longer in much of a position these days to care what anyone thinks of me about this and I’ve pretty much already covered it all (I’m an attention whore, an actress, a liar, lazy, etc. ad infinitum), so for myself I just offer a “meh.” However, to others like me, to whatever degree, it fucking sucks that this might happen. I don’t want that path to be anymore well taken than it already is.

Just my humble opinion and all. As someone in the trenches, probably to stay.

I hope that explains my views well enough to be understood.
[Sorry if I hijacked the thread. That was never my intention. If the consensus now is to take this somewhere else, I’d gladly follow along.]

I don’t know anyone except for Big Insurance who agrees that we have a *good * system of healthcare. For now at least, genetic testing is being watched closely by human interest and civil rights groups for the reasons of both ethics and insurance. I feel strongly that psych testing should/could fall under the same guidelines, at least until we have found a method of testing blood for measurable, replicatable ratios of chemicals that are an accurate indicator of poor emotional or mental health. Until then, all we have are models, the word of the mentally ill, and an educated guessing game.

If it is okay with you, I’d rather skip the thread for now- I feel that we could save it for a later date when feelings aren’t quite so raw. I agree fully that mental health resources should carry less stigma and be more mainstream- this kind of dialogue helps.

By the way, in regards to the " “Ismail Ax” written inscription on his arm, this place put forth the possible following theory:

"*As for the term’s meaning, one popular theory spreading across the web comes from a story in the Koran, the holy book of Islam, about Ibrahim and his son, Ismail. This theory picked up speed because many bloggers wondered if the actions at Virginia Tech could be related to terrorism.

In Islam, Ibrahim is known as the father of the prophets and, upset that people in his hometown still worshiped idols and not Allah, he smashed all but one statue in a local temple with an ax. Ibrahim’s son is Ismail, who also became a prophet. Ibrahim is Arabic for Abraham, who plays a significant role in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.*"

I can’t vouch for the veracity of the website, but it was the only one that I could find that thought they had some idea.

Re: Ismail Ax… I found a site right after that was first posted that has now been obliterated by the plethora of subsequent searches, I’ve looked but for all intents and purposes it’s gone, but it said something to the effect of how writing someone’s name in red is somewhat taboo in Korea, equivalent to wishing harm on the person. Take that for what it’s worth, cite as mentioned unavailable. We may never know what Ismail Ax means and, considering the rambling nature of some of his writings, I’m not positive we could really garner any understanding of what was going through his mind. What’s important to him may well be beyond our comprehension, the fault being in his unability to reason rationally.

Regarding Camelot’s posted quote… “I just watched a CNN reporter completely lose his composure while he described the local emergency officials removing the bodies from Norris Hall as the dead students’ cell phones were ringing and buzzing, their frantic parents tried to make sure that they were okay. I don’t even know what to do with that image.”

What myskepticsight said. That took things to a new, painful comprehension. Bad as all the reports have been, that tore the biggest hole in my gut. It’s just too much.

CNN has seriously been overusing that thing. I think they had it on their Web site all day yesterday even though this story hasn’t been “breaking” for probably 36 hours. This morning, they have a red “developing story” banner on there.

Hey everyone, I tried to post this lastnight, but I couldn’t get onto the Dope so I’ll post it now. I just wanted to come back with some more updates, good and bad. (Sorry that this post is so long. It was a long day.)

I spent most of the day with my friends again, first at the convocational this afternoon and then at the candlelight vigil this evening.

The convocational was scheduled to begin at 2 o’clock and be held in the coliseum on campus (it’s where basketball games are held) and I was planning to go with the same group of friends from church that I spent yesterday evening with. Thinking that we’d get there early to get good seats, we agreed to meet outside the main student center at noon to head over to the coliseum. Well, it turns out that only 5 people showed up. We called some others on their cell phones and discovered that they’d already gotten in line, that the line was several blocks long and that there was no way the whole line would get into the coliseum. We hurried across campus to join them in line and did manage to get in. (Evidently those who didn’t get in watched the proceedings on the jumbotron in the football stadium about a block away.)

There were a number of high profile speakers at the convocation but I didn’t get to hear them very well (the sound system isn’t great and not all of the speakers spoke very clearly into the microphone.) President Bush was there as was the Governor of Virginia and number of high level university officials. I was pretty pleased with how it went (although I’d still love to know the other half of what was said. I’ll probably look for a transcript later.)

As we were leaving the coliseum to go meet up with more friends and try to get dinner together, one of the girls got a phone call and we learned that the girl who we hadn’t been able to reach has been confirmed to be dead. It hit us all kind of hard. We gathered at a friend’s house and spent some time together in prayer before going to dinner.

There was also a candle light vigil this evening in front of Burruss hall on the drill field (a big open field in the center of the campus.) On our way to the vigil, we met up with some more friends, including a girl who works in the same dining hall as I do. She informed me that our dining hall had lost 3 people in the shootings. One who used to work there before I started, one who worked in a different shop from me and whom I had never met and finally a girl who was one of my first supervisors when I started work in the fall.

Finding out that she was dead was a terrible shock. She was transferred to another shop months ago but she was still friends with everybody in my shop who had known her. Just a few days ago, some coworkers and I were lamenting the fact that this girl had been passed over for a promotion to student manager and all of a sudden I’m finding out that she’s dead. I still can’t say it’s fully sunken in.

The vigil drew a massive crowd. (I think the estimate beforehand was in the vicinity of 4000 people expected to be there.) As we waited for things to start, rumors ran through the crowd that Oprah was around somewhere. I don’t know about that, but apparently one of my friends spoke to Geraldo Rivera (whom he invited to be the guest of honor at this year’s iteration of an annual party in Blacksburg known as the Mustache Bash. Geraldo declined.)

The official program for the vigil was very brief. There was some brief speaking on the importance of community and of being there for each other. Echo taps were played. (I always cry when I hear taps.) After that, the crowd was encouraged to stay around as long as we like. My friends and I stayed for another half hour during which time the crowd sang a few songs together (we started out humming Amazing Grace, but somehow half way through we found ourselves singing The Star Spangled Banner. We eventually got back to Amazing Grace.) and a few Virginia Tech cheers were chanted.

I spent a few hours after that just hanging out with the friends at one of the church group leaders’ houses. We sang and prayed and just talked about what was going on.

Once I got back to my dorm room, I went out to get something to eat with my best friend and then spent a half hour trying to find a newspaper dispenser thing that still had any copies of today’s Collegiate Times (featuring, of course, a front page story about Monday’s incident.) I didn’t manage to find one so I’ll probably contact the CT offices and see about ordering one. It just seems like the sort of thing I’d like to show my kids someday.

That’s about it. There are still plenty of police around campus. I was stopped by a few as I went to pick up my bike from the rack outside the building where I was locked down. I guess it’s because it’s so close to Norris Hall that they have police posted there. The mood is still a bit tense but people are definitely coming together in the aftermath of the shootings. They said it at the convocation and again at the vigil. We will recover. We will move on. But we will never forget.

(((Lord Il Palazzo ))) Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings and activities. My heart has been broken over and over again since Monday, and knowing you, one of our Dopers, are going through this terrible tragedy makes it break once more. Know my prayers are with you.

Lord Il Palazzo, my thoughts are with you. I am so sorry for your losses, and so impressed by your strength.

I found out that the young woman I know was not among those killed. She is fine physically, but has left to stay with friends in another state and doesn’t know if she will return.

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve gotten some closure, but in the worst possible way.