I also think the question of whether the outfit actually showed the nipples through the fabric, or whether that was photoshopped in, is still up in the air. None of the better-quality reports have included images that show that, as best as i can tell.
Mostly no longer thinly veiled anti-trans hate.
“The story” that we know is true is that an individual, who has been confirmed to not be a specific individual, who has been reported but not confirmed to be an individual transitioning to female and has also been reported but not confirmed to be a man who hates trans and policies that allow them to be, came one day to work as a shop teacher wearing an outfit and prosthetics that presented them as a grotesque caricature of a woman, possibly inclusive of exaggeratedly prominent nipples although there may be question if the photos showing that were altered. We also know that alt right groups then organized protests outside the school attended by apparently only a handful of those of the community and that the school is stating that privacy policies do not allow them further comment. Other students have objected to these non-community protesters’ presence.
Any stories other than that are speculations and rumors, made “news” outside the High School building in service of promulgating trans hate and support for the war on trans people.
Also, from the most recent article you posted, it sounds like the school system is considering modifying its dress code. That strongly suggests that the prosthetic breasts didn’t actually violate the existing dress code, but perhaps would in the future.
I strongly suspect mods here can apredicate how difficult it can be to write a rule that actually accomplishes its intent without abuse, especially by trolls.
You don’t want to ban prosthetic breasts appropriately used, be it by a breast cancer survivor or a transwoman. But what is “appropriate” is hard to exactly put into words. And spelling out that nipple outlines should not be visible is not a safe path to start treading. Size? There are women naturally very large. Should they be forbidden from teaching shop class? From being in a High School? You may paint yourself into a corner in which a large breasted cancer survivor is forbidden from wearing a prosthetic that matches her natural breast size and shape.
You’d like to have a policy that stated to a trans-person that school policy accepts your gender as you state. Period. But you leave yourself open to having to call a male who is trolling as a caricature of a woman a transitioning woman if that is what they say they are - for that day. (Not saying that we know that such is what is happening here. We know little and really not our business to know.)
So glad I’m not a lawyer!
But it may be best to not try to chase your tail in reaction to one case of inappropriate behavior that goes against the intent of the rules but is strictly allowable.
IANAL, but I think this is where the reasonable person doctrine would come in to play. In other words, would a reasonable person conclude the attire is appropriate?
Maybe. But you’ll have a different standard declared “reasonable” in some communities than others, with some believing it is not reasonable for a person born male to present as female at all.
Right. And I should have said, “Would a reasonable person conclude it is appropriate attire for a teacher?”
So glad you linked to that article.
Here’s the text from the last paragraphs.
The dress code needs to apply to students and teachers. The focus of school is about teaching and learning. This is a question of professional decency and dress code, never about anti-trans individuals or the LGBTQ community."*
And @puzzlegal you should end your crusade looking for photoshopped nipples.
Because puzzlegal is the one on a crusade here, sure.
ETA, FWIW, puzzlegal trying to find out if the picture is photoshopped is an example of her looking for facts instead of spreading rumors.
@chela , if the teacher is actually trans, i suspect those are fake. They are consistent with a right wing troll, who might be the teacher, or might be the media.
The nipples are part of the breast prosthetic. The whole rig is fake.
And some communities would say reasonable attire for a teacher to be that “Men should dress like men!”
Yes, that is a quote from Mr. Meaney, a Ward 1 candidate, the one who was leading protestors in chanting for students to leave the classrooms.
His statements about it not being anti-trans, only dress codes, as he led a bunch of outside the community alt-right protestors in chanting disruptions to classes in progress, speaking of course on behalf of all the parents who wanted to be there, but couldn’t because of work, that’s the ticket, is duly noted, and taken with the same unquestioning acceptance that your concerns about the the safety of large breasts in shop class are.
@Joey_P
You seem to be under the impression there is no shop teacher coming to school dressed in inappropriate attire.
Here’s some wag rumors shared earlier.
Mr Meaney BTW is a candidate is a different ward than the school, and we know he is not a racist because he goes out of his way to point out that his volunteer coordinator is a self-appointed leader of the urban aboriginal community. No mention of any best friend though …
Another confusing post! Yes if one is male or trans man We’d expect them to dress like men!
FFS maybe teachers be should wearing the doctoral robe in school.
Oh my, you said the quiet part out loud.
Why do you say that? Could you quote me on that? Are you saying I’m under the impression there’s no shop teacher coming to school dressed like that or are did I say that there’s no shop teacher dressed in inappropriate attire?
Let me quote something I said to you upthread but it clearly needs repeating.
If you think I’m doing something sneaky or trying to play both sides or trolling or you’re genuinely asking for clarification, just quote me so I know what you’re talking about, ask me a straightforward question, and I’ll address it.
I promise, I won’t deflect.
Now, could you please clarify your question and point to the post that prompted it, because I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking and I’d like us to be on the same page.
That’s complete nonsense. I’ve said nothing hateful at all. I merely went out of my way to confirm the story that emerged in the press wasn’t a fake. That’s it. Are you confusing me with someone else in this thread? You must be.
I agree, which is why I only confirmed a rather limited set of facts. (Some people seemed really upset by my refusal to speculate further, for some reason.)
Incidentally, your claim “alt right groups” “organized” the protests outside the school is not supported by facts. There was at least one very small protest - about 20, 25 people showed up - but there’s no evidence it was organized by any group in particular. It appears, from what anyone presently knows, to have been just local malcontents who were apparently unburdened by day jobs showing up. As I noted earlier, at least a few of them weren’t even there about the teacher, but used the occasion to bitch about Justin Trudeau and vaccine mandates. (This is, incidentally, a very common feature of Canadian protests this last year.)
That has NOT been reported. One anonymous post on Reddit made this (rather serious and gross) accusation. A post on Reddit isn’t “reporting.” “Reporting” would be a newspaper or some other legitimate media source. If we call any bullshit on Reddit “Reporting,” then everything you can possibly think of has been “reported” and the word means nothing anymore.
I’ll also note that I’ve seen some right wing publications who also speculated that the person in these photos and videos is a right wing troll. But of course they were celebrating the idea, that they might be “sticking it to the libs” or whatever.
That doesn’t add anything to the veracity of the suggestion, rather the opposite, but I thought it worth noting the idea is out there in more than one place.