Hey, when I lived in NYC, I gave up my seat to anyone who looked like they might need it. I think most of us are with you there.
I once nearly passed out on the B train during morning rush hour - I think I was having a panic attack - but as I’m crouched on the floor trying not to lose my balance and throw up, not one person offered to help me or offered me a seat - and I looked pale and sick. It pissed me off, but whatever. I was planning to aim for the shoes of those sitting in the ‘extra assistance’ seats (all of whom appeared perfectly healthy - I doubt there were four people with invisible ailments during rush hour) if I threw up.
And while pregnancy is not a disability, and for the most part, it’s a choice, what’s really wrong with common courtesy? Going skiing and breaking an ankle could also be construed as a choice (hey, you knew the risks, you did it anyway), so why should anyone give up a seat to someone with a broken ankle resulting from skiing?
There are no ladies and gentlemen. There are only people. Some people have a need to sit more than others. I see no problem with giving up a seat to someone who needs it more than you do. However, I would have a problem if you assume that any woman needs a seat more than you do or that no man needs a seat more than a woman does.
I also see no problem with someone asking for a seat, if they need one.
IMHO:
I’d say “Could anybody spare a seat for me?” That “for a pregnant woman” stuff is unnecessary and sounds sarcastic. If I heard that part, I’d ignore it.
One day on the train I saw an elderly person (can’t remember whether it was a man or woman) approaching people sitting in the seats by the door (I forget what the sign says but it says something about giving preference to handicapped and elderly people) and asking them, “Are any of you senior citizens?” It seemed obnoxious to me.
I wouldn’t make a general announcement. I’d ask a specific person. “I’m sorry, but do you mind if I sit down? I’m feeling very tired.”
Upon such a request, I’d happily give up my seat. (Okay, maybe not happily, but unhesitatingly.)
I think there is a cultural difference at play here. I agree with you and I am also in the NYC area, **Sampiro ** & I think **Oakminster ** were raised in the south. I think the older standards are still more in play in the south from the limited sampling of this thread at least. I like how **Anaamika ** summed it up earlier. If a guy gives up his seat to an apparently healthy, fit and not distressed woman in the NY area, it would be interpreted as possibly hitting on her.
On the other hand, I would be embarrassed and put out if someone offered me their seat and I would turn it down. So, I would guess many seniors would be put off by the automatic offer also.
Hee! And yes, before anyone asks, I have been hit on that way. Both nicely - as in someone I might have considered if it wasn’t the damn subway - and not nicely, as in, “Say, you wanna have a seat? Well, then how about in my lap?”
As for the seniors thing, I figure at least I’ve asked. But then they come from a time where it was proper for men to stand and women to sit.
Well, then, it seems to me that’s a problem. You would like it if someone helped you, but it’s beneath you to let someone know you need help. I think people should help each other, but I also think that people should not hesitate to say that they need help. All this assuming and trying to read minds that goes on isn’t good for society in the long run.
If I need help, it will be apparent. I’ll either drop packages, turn pale, or something. I’m healthy. Healthier than 90% of the people on the train. I suppose if I were the sickly or disabled type, I’d have a different take on it, but generally speaking, there will always be someone who needs it more than I do.
Maybe it’s a southern thing (I wonder what Sampiro, Tuckerfan or Oakminster think–but I can’t imagine being comfortable on a mass transit vehicle if I were sitting and there was a pregnant woman, or elderly/handicapped person of either gender, standing within my sight. It’s JUST NOT DONE. I don’t feel obliged to surrender my seat to women in general, but my home training is strong enough so that I’d pretty much have to under such circumstances.
I think you went down the wrong track. There are a bunch of us from the NY area that would gladly offer our seats to a pregnant lady or Senior or Handicapped person but would not feel comfortable offering our seats to woman without some apparent need. That was the cultural difference that I was talking about at least.
Not really sure what I should do then. I offer my seat to a man because he is elderly. He refuses because he is a gentleman and I am a lady and in his mind it is Not Done to make ladies give up seats for him. He is of a different era than me, I am of the mindset that the person who obviously needs it more should sit. He wishes to show that he is a man.
So at this point, do I bruise his ego or just leave it be? I choose to leave it be.
Did I miss the post where this became about gender, rather than health/ability? I can’t seem to pinpoint it.
I don’t *expect * anyone to offer me their seat. I’m perfectly healthy and capable of standing for the duration of the ride. However, I wouldn’t be *insulted * by someone offering me their seat. I’ve had people offer me their seat because I was carrying packages, or because I was wearing heels, and I’ve offered mine for the same reasons. If I’m actually suffering with the packages or the heels, I’ll gratefully accept. If not, I’ll politely decline. It would never occur to me that someone was offering his seat *just * because I’m a woman. I’d probably just assume I look really crappy.
The bottom line is that there’s no excuse, for not offering one’s seat to someone who’s more in need of it. If you don’t, you’re an asshole. If you choose to be an asshole, you’re within your rights, but own it. Don’t act as though it’s unreasonable of other people to expect you to behave decently.
Thanks for the feedback, y’all. One reason that I’ve been confused about this is that our signs say something like “The federal government requires that seats adjacent to the doors be offered to seniors and persons with disabilities.” I don’t know if the second trimester of pregnancy qualifies as a temporary disability (huge as I am). Third with twins does qualify–at least for time off from work–but by then the doctor may not want me taking public transit anyway.
Just to let you know I’m not completely high-maintenance: I’m not expecting the special seats, really. I’m happy to sit wherever I can. And I don’t think I have a better claim to any seat than the elderly or the disabled.
Here in Paris you’re actually way down the list of those deserving of a seat - behind those mutilated or blinded in the war, disabled civilians and folk over 75 !
I too give up my seat (30 something female) but I’m not beyond hiding in a book and hoping someone else will do so first. Sometimes I need the guilt to build up a bit before I move & I find it’s getting tricky to decide how old a woman need be before I offer her a seat, unless very frail I wouldn’t offer it to a man but that’s more because I wouldn’t want to “emasculate” them.
Someone earlier mentioned the “do unto others” theory and I guess that’s what I operate on. I remember an old lady on the metro in Milan making sure she got my attention so I got my seat back when she got off. I help women with pushchairs up and down the stairs on the amazingly ill designed Paris metro system but then I also help those with unwieldy baggage - as I was helped transporting a table across town.
A friend when she was expecting found that she was offered a seat more often on the metro than the suburban trains - I guess the longer your journey the more willpower needed to give up your seat. :rolleyes:
I’d try the gentle “Sorry, I guess you’ve had a long day too but any chance I could sit down ?”
Giving up my seat so that others in greater need may enjoy its use is, in my case, behavior instilled in me from an early age. The same is true of holding open doors for anyone, or offering to lend a hand to a stranger who appears in need of assistance. That any person should regard my actions as chauvanistic or insulting is, as I see it, evidence of having been raised outside of civilized society. The person who scorns courtesty when it is offered freely is not deserving of courtesy at any time.
Didn’t you know that after a gentleman offers his place to a lady, he must leave his newspaper behind? This will protect her delicate sensibilities from unseemly contact with his body heat. (Flutter eyelashes, blush.)
Practically speaking, I’ll offer my seat to anyone who seems to need it more than I do. Elderly? Disabled? Extra large? Burdened with packages? Whatever…
As a healthy middle-aged woman, I expect no special treatment. But, if a gentleman of the old school offers me his seat, I may take it with thanks. I surely won’t be offended.
