[Gob] Oh yeah! Like I’m going to get up for a pregnant woman and ruin my five thousand dollar suit! That’s…that’s probably more than she earns in a year! [/Gob]
Call me crazy-but I THINK he was kidding.
catsix, how the hell do you know these men only offer their seats to women?
And like it or not, but many elderly gentlemen were raised in a different time, in a different, well, I don’t want to say “culture”, exactly, but that’s the only word I can think of. It’s most likely a reflex on their parts.
And even then, who cares if it IS mildly insulting-if someone is THAT offended by being offered a seat, well, that’s their problem. I have more important things to worry about.
Have you read all the posts in this thread? Really, have you?
Because it’s been pointed out by more than one male poster that they offer up a seat to any woman, but would not do the same for any random man.
I appreciate it that you’re trying to spare my feelings in this, and I’d like to clear up a few misunderstandings.
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I’m not talking about a short train ride in a city. I can’t afford the entire trip by cab because it’s a 35-minute suburbs-to-city ride. It is my daily commute, and without it, I can’t keep my job.
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If I were pregnant and feeling little worse than usual, I wouldn’t worry about it. Unfortunately, it’s a high-risk pregnancy (twins), and I’m big, unsteady, and very tired.
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Please don’t assume that I plan to drag infants on the same commute every day once I’ve had the kids. I don’t think that’s ideal for either the kids or the other passengers.
I’m talking about on the bus or train, or subway, or whatever. Not here in this thread. You wouldn’t KNOW the reason a total stranger offers up his seat.
Correction: SOME Yankees. But not those of us who were raised properly.
And I’d happily offer Catxix my seat and if she became as upset as she has in this thread about it, I’d just assume she was having hormone problems or something and be content knowing I’d done the right thing.
So when people who actually do this in real life discuss why they do it here, that tells me nothing about why people do this in real life?
OK then, why do people automatically offer a woman a seat on a bus or a train but not make the same offer to men? I’ve never seen anyone offer a seat to an able-bodied man on a bus or train.
**
No, see, if your “first come, first serve” thing is accurate, then it’s my seat to give up or not as I see fit. And if I choose to give my seat to women because it’s polite, I will.
Because it’s polite for a gentleman to give up his seat for a lady. Isn’t that easy?
Of course, if your next comment is “But why is it polite?”, I’ll give you the same answer I give kids “Because it is.” It’s not polite to eat spagehetti with your fingers, even though they’re clearly the most efficient tool to eat spaghetti with, because that’s what’s polite.
Yeah, I agree, it’s your seat to give, but if you’re giving it only to women for the reason that they are women, then you’re not a gentleman, you’re a bigot. I’m saying that in our modern egalitarian (better) society, it’s not polite when you discriminate by doing this favor only for women.
And because of the many, many ways in women are actually discriminated against and belittled in the world, taking offense at someone offering a genuine gesture of politeness or kindness is absurd.
Okay, I immediately want to take that back, because it’s phrased in a way that could be seen as a direct insult to Cartman’s Ghost.
What I mean to say is that if a man offers his seat it only to women for the reason that they are women, then he is not a gentleman, he is a bigot. I’m saying that in our modern egalitarian (better) society, it’s not polite when a man discriminates by doing this favor only for women.
So not only do you think women need to have the door held open for them, you’re going to talk down to them as you would a child, too?
Note the “if/then” statement? So no, not all women in general or Catsix in particular, unless and only if she asks that question. But hey, I’d give the same answer to a guy who asked it too.
And women don’t “need” to have a door held open for them. That doesn’t change the fact that its polite to do it. Just like you don’t “need” to use a knife and fork to cut meat off a steak, but it’s not polite to pick a T-Bone up and start gnawing.
I think the reasons behind why something is polite are important. Just because many people follow a practice doesn’t make it right. If you’re being polite to someone because they are a woman, then you’re being discriminatory, and I think anyone has a right to get pissed off about that. Not the fact that you’re opening a door for someone, but the fact that you’re only applying your politeness to a certain class. Regardless of whether I’m in that class, your actions come off more as a backhanded compliment.
It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point of the original post here. Yes, women get pregnant. Yes, that was their life choice to have children, not yours. I bet you anything though, that they are NOT desirous of becoming cumbersome and clumsy. However that’s how biology works, correct? Pregnant women are not trying to inconvenience your precious little world. They are trying to get through the pregnancy with their own self and child inside of them, healthy. If she fell or smacked her offending bulging abdomen into the territory of a seat that you’re defending so vehemently, would you feel so smug about her injuries then? To those who feel that you give up your seat for no one, if you were riding with a friend who was pregnant would you stand so that she could sit? Why? Because you care about them right? Some people see someone else and say “I have a mom, a sister, a best friend, and I would want someone to give up their seat if I wasn’t around to do it for her.”
Buses bounce, lurch, and stop short. Trains throw people off their feet all the time. (Try standing on a downtown 6 train out of GCT, the conductor whips it around the bend every time. I, an able-bodied adult female not carrying much, in flat shoes, and holding onto a pole lose my balance occasionally.)
XJETGIRLX I believe don’t believe he is talking to all women, just the ones who can’t take people being nice to them.
You may wish that it wasn’t polite for a man to “discriminate”* in favor of a woman, but in point of fact, it currently is polite. We’ll see what happens in 10-20 years. It may well change. But at the moment, IMO you’re in the minority.
*Do you also feel that “Ladies nights” at bars are discriminatory?
Re-reading his post contradicts your stated belief. He said, “Because it’s polite for a gentleman to give up his seat for a lady. Isn’t that easy?”
My view is that it’s polite for a person to give up their seat for someone who is obviously in more dire need of it. It’s a bit chavinistic for a gentleman to give his seat up for a lady. I’m not condemning the act of being nice to someone, but making that act conditional upon gender, or race, or any other factor to me is a bit distasteful.
Oh man, if the standard we’re supposed to use is how we would like our mom to be treated, then you’re all in trouble. 
Seriously, I don’t see pregnancy or being female in the same light as being disabled. Sure, there are going to be cases where the woman has a much harder time than most, and may need to take the same considerations someone with a disability might. But the point is I’m not going to assume that just because someone is a woman or pregnant that they are automatically entitled to my seat (among other things). If I see someone who looks like they need the seat more than me, regardless of what other conditional factors there are I’ll offer it. But a pregnant woman isn’t some delicate fragile glass sculpture. If a simple busride is so treacherous than perhaps the onus is on her to plan her transportation to accommodate her situation.
I don’t think it’s currently polite to discriminate in favor of women, however it is currently accepted. Big difference there, IMO.
Anything that gives preference to one class over another is, by its very nature discriminatory. That’s not really a matter of what one feels, it is the nature of the situation. Were you suggesting that there is any way it could be otherwise?
I think a lot of the miscommunication here stems from ‘the way things are’ versus ‘the way things should be, according to whomever’. I’m in the camp that it’s nice to be nice to other people, but it’s more important to be respectful. I have two strikes against me, being female and being small. People don’t take me seriously and are constantly trying to do things for me, or help me out. It pisses me off. I know that they’re only trying to be nice, but the reason they’re trying to be nice is because they think I need it. I’d never berate someone for trying to help, but I have told people in a polite way that I while I appreciate the offer, I would prefer they let me demonstrate my own competencies in whatever area. It’s just patronizing, is all.
Personal anecdote:
Last week, I was on vacation from work. My parents came to visit from Florida. Dad’s 66, overweight, and has had a quadruple bypass; he’s probably going to need another surgery next year, as his arteries are clogging again. Mom’s 64 and overweight, but relatively healthy.
I look healthy, but I have sciatica, problems with hip & knee joints, just recovering from a torn calf muscle, and have severe tendonitis in my arms (makes it painful to hold a pole or strap on a moving train).
We rode the train downtown to go to the art museum one day. On the way home, there were not enough seats for all of us. I took a seat in the priority seating, and Dad gave the other available one to Mom (because she’s his wife, of course - he wouldn’t sit & leave her standing unless he were injured or something, in which case I’d be the one standing).
One of the people sitting in the priority seats was a young man (apparently healthy, especially his sense of entitlement) who was pointedly staring out the window. Dad made a comment about the fact that he should get a seat (over 65 is classified as senior citizen on our transit system), but the guy just sat there. Looking out the window. Dad & I knew what he was up to - he was refusing to make eye contact. Because if you make eye contact, if you acknowledge that there is any other human being in the world, they might ask you to move. (Personally, I will ask even if you don’t make eye contact with me. But my parents couldn’t bring themselves to directly address the guy).
Eventually, someone else got up, and Dad got to sit. He made several comments out loud about people who don’t give up a seat in the priority section for those that are supposed to be entitled to them, but the guy had no shame.
What an asshole that guy is. Unfortunately, there are at least a handful of them on every train.
My credo is this: if you need a seat (need as in, standing is a source of pain, discomfort, etc.), and no one offers you a seat, speak up. Don’t wait like a wallflower for some good-hearted person to offer. Some (most? almost all?) people are no damn good. Just say “I need a seat, please.” If someone gets up, smile and thank them. If no one gets up, up the ante, if possible. Announce your disabled condition if you feel unashamed. “I need to sit because I (am pregnant and my feet hurt) (have a painful back condition) (am unable to stand and hold the strap with these crutches in my hands). Is there someone who is able to give up a seat, please?” Use a louder voice than the first time, but stay calm & polite about it. For me, third strike would be to press the call button and ask the operator how a disabled person can get a seat when no one will move for him/her. It’s their job to step in.
I have given my seat up to someone (male and female) when my conditions were not as bad. I have also graciously accepted a seat given up by males and young females when offered.