My idea of civilization differs from yours obviously.
In the end I watched some of it but really it wasn’t much of a debate, too many pre prepared answers from the other politicians. The only person who actually engaged him on the panel was Bonnie Greer and she did a good job.
Quote of the day?
or maybe this one:
whatever that means.
I thought the BBC fitted him up very well; a liberal, metropolitan, London audience, QT itself is the most intimidating of all political environments and Dimbleby was by far the person who made Griffin most uncomfortable. So they got him three ways, location, format and questioner.
Jack Straw as appalling and did nothing to placate the BNP protest voters.
Bonnie Greer was very good indeed; despite body language that suggested she’d rather be sitting next to a plague victim she kept her arguments on point, punctuated with humor and free of the bloviating pompousness and open abuse that the rest of the panel and the audience were prone to.
The best part was watching Jack Straw, who kicked things off by trying to claim the moral high ground, taking hits for Labour essentially enabling the BNP through the Government’s ineptitude on immigration and social policy. The man just can’t win.
Don’t usually like Dimbleby but he was very good last night. Knocked Griffin back early on with well-briefed questions that made him look evasive and mendacious (well he is, of course!) and he didn’t really recover from that, being whiny and defensive for the rest of the programme.
I was worried he’d be an effective debater, I’ve seen him on Channel 4 news and he seemed to acquit himself well (for a fascist slimeball that is), but I think he got exposed last night. OK he was outnumbered but a good debater could turn that to his advantage, acting as a lone martyr. Griffin didn’t even have the gumption to do that.
I have to agree on Straw, I was expecting more from him.
Obviously it does. Mine doesn’t have a rose tinted hue around it.
The violent actions last night achieved what in your opinion?
The individual actions last night - I honestly don’t know. I am not in the UK these days, and haven’t seen mych about the specific actions. Hence the comment about not being “overly upset” by them, as opposed to a more firm endorsement of them.
Of direct action against fascists? By non-state actors? Hell yes. The far right in Britain has always used violence and fear. Sometimes they let the main party do that (the old BNP was a violent street gang) and sometimes they put a suited spokesman up in public and let the violence go behind the scenes. But all in all, they don’t change. I believe that returning that violence is not a bad thing. Not only does it not cause me to loose any sleep at night if a skinhead whose idea of fun is a day out “Paki-bashing” or planting nail bombs in gay pubs is scared shitless that when he walks outside he house, he might the the one receiving a beat down, but also there is a far more tactical rationale. The fascists may have somewhat smart, or more accurately shrewd, leaders, but their rank and file are dumb as a sack of rocks. And part of the current job of the leadership is keeping somewhat of a lid on that rank and file, so they can continue to present a “respectable” face to the public (while of course having a good old laugh in private over that old Jewish man who got left in a bloodied pile on the floor after the pub closed last night). It’s a tough job keeping these people in line, and direct action against them makes it way more likely the skinheads are going to lose it, and show themselves more openly. Then the BNP loses its veneer of respectability, and a bunch of Neo-Nazis get a kicking (without the protection of the police, which tends to be withdrawn once they start acting true to type). It’s a win-win situation.
Direct action also serves the purpose of sending a message. That the fascists are not welcome. That whatever the state may do, the people will not tolerate their evil.
They Shall Not Pass. October 4, 1936.
Here is what was achieved by last night’s action:
I agree there are times when we have to stand up to fascism, the battle of Cable Street for one very good example, but last night achieved nothing but police casualties. There weren’t any BNP supporters there and the crowd were trying to stifle free speech which is as abhorrent as the fascists themselves.
Does the US have ultra right parties or politicians/activists that have much popular support?
Well, those results might not be anything particularly great, but they also don’t strike me as anything to get “overly upset” about.
Of course it’s only a few policemen injured by a mob whatever could I be upset about?
Don’t get carried away martu.
One policeman with a bleeding scratch to the face. One requiring hospital treatment - and if the person stays in, that would normally be referred to as hospitalization - my guess would be something like a sprained ankle. And one other “injured.” If that causes you to get “overly upset,” well, then I imagine your head would explode when you look at the consequences of a real anti-fascist demo.
I do not understand your position, do you think it is a good thing that policemen are injured in an anti-fascist demo?
As I quoted earlier, Nick Griffin believes that a boot and a fist is the best way to sort things out. It’s a shame that those opposed to him use his approach in their demonstrations.
Agreed entirely. I can see a need to meet fascists with fists sometimes but a mob storming the BBC and injuring police to try to stop someone exercising their right to free speech is not the time for violence. A BNP march through a Muslim area? Sure I can see that, but the BBC??
And what makes it even more wrong is that I’m sure that some of the placards were protesting about nuclear weapons and Iran - nothing to do with the Nick Griffin and Question Time.
Griffin got a thorough thrashing - and I only watched the first half. Straw was okay: he didn’t have to stretch himself. I would have like to hear more discussion of the BNP’s policies rather than concentrating on Mr Griffin himself, but I’m well aware that there was only so much time.
He has every freedom to spout his heinous bile in public. Trying to stop him from being on a television show however isn’t infringing on his freedom of speech.