Should Alan Grayson apologize for his "die quickly" remarks?

If the point is to inflame people a la Rush and Hannity, then let’s have someone other than our elected national leaders do it. I’m sure there’s plenty of those “put your anti-cooty shields up” websites out there to do the job. But let’s get real: all these right wing pundits only have two things on their agenda: get higher ratings and bigger paychecks; and blame everything on Democrats. Rush has no health care plan, he has no vote in Congress.

For as much as folks refuse to cry crocodile tears for insulting Republicans, I’m starting to think that Rush, Beck, and Hannity are hurting your “widdle feewlings” and you want someone to fight back against these big, mean men who are marginalized except for the coverage of teabaggers and the stupid things they say. Let’s be clear, their agenda is losing. They opposed stimulating the economy and getting things rolling again. They wanted presidents who were more right wing than Bush or McCain could ever be. They wanted us to stay in Iraq for a jillion years. Whatever agenda they have, they are losing, and yet they say nasty things so you want someone to say mean things about them. It is a childish debate.

And I know that supporters of Grayson’s comments will make any absurd claim to defend a speech that makes them feeeeeel so very good, but the oft-repeated claim here that Democrats need some spine and passion to get reform done does not mean that this is the way to do it. Our choice is not between Glenn Beck and Adlai Stevenson: insane rantings vs. boring eggheads. Ted Kennedy, for example, was without a doubt one of the most passionate, and most effective, political leaders of the 20th century.

Kennedy’s speeches had more passion than anything Rush has ever said, and they also had more content. He also didn’t rest his passion on lies and insults.

From this week’s Democratic Underground “Top 10 Conservative Idiots:”

I agree, which is why I’ve switched sides in this particular debate.

It is nice and freeing when someone says what I’m thinking, but that doesn’t make it good politics.

I have to say, when you said you changed your mind, I thought: “What?!? Someone on the SDMB changing their mind? My irony meter isn’t going off… could this be genuine? It’s just so… weird.” :slight_smile:

He shouldn’t apologize for people’s poor comprehension. A conservative friend of mine already made a “The Holocaust” reference about Grayson. I simply told him he was wrong. he used a legitimate small h holocaust.

Exactly. This comparison to Rush and Beck is just silly-- those guys make money out of being jerks. I want better from our elected officals. There are plenty of ways to criticize the Pubbies strongly without saying their plan is for people to die. For some, that might speak truth to power, but as someone who is not aligned to either party, I can tell it does not speak any truth to me.

Grayson is also talking about the current debate on health care reform rather than any efforts they made in the past. IMHO the problem is that although many Pubbies may recognize the urgent need for reform for political reasons they think it’s more important to derail Obama’s agenda than to compromise and bring about reform.
The Pubbie with Grayson on CNN listed several things claiming that if Obama would include those {some?, all?} the GOP would line up to support reform. I call BS on that. Some might but when we see GOP officials repeating lies rather than offering commitments to serious suggestions I see the evidence that their real priority is to defeat Obama politically rather than address a very serious issue.
If that’s the case, and considering the realities of the health care issue, then Grayson’s caricature of their policy isn’t all that inaccurate.

That said, I think he could have been just as forceful and condemning by listing the lies repeated by members of the GOP {the list in this thread} and insisting that they offer some commitment to real health care reform specifics or admit to the public that they care more about political victory than they do the citizens who pay their salaries.
The next question is whether something like that would have gotten the media’s attention.

I know that war is guaranteed to kill people, and health care is guaranteed to save people. I don’t see any moral ambiguity here.

Let’s not forget that Alan Grayson didn’t introduce lies to this debate. He made them in a context where many, many, many bad things had already been said about the Democratic health care plan. Appeals to emotion can much more effective than appeals to fact.

In an ideal world, nobody would make comments like this. But we don’t live in that world.

But it wasn’t about intentional deception for Grayson. He wasn’t trying to fool anyone . He was using hyperbole to make a point. Do we see any evidence that republicans will actually support specific measures? Are they willing to compromise? On what specifically? These are the details that determine whether their actions are completely obstructionist or in any way a sincere attempt to solve a serious problem.

An idealistic and somewhat unrealistic principle. I tend to agree in that I prefer strong and accurate language over hyperbole. Still, I forgive Grayson for hitting back at the lies consistently perpetrated by the GOP in those very chambers. The over the top language is a way of getting people to make the “put up or shut up” demand on the GOP. Do they want to whine and bitch after everything you’ve been saying, or will they actually commit to reforming health care and act accordingly?
The big problem is if their primary goal is to defeat Obama politically on this issue they have to stop reform to keep him from getting the credit. Exposing their obstructionism is the way to go.

Interesting how you end that post, given that you engage in name calling and insults yourself, Ravenman.

I won’t say that the overall thrust of your argument is wrong, but ISTM that your own actions and words don’t meet the ideal you profess to be putting out there.

I still feel that Mr. Grayson has nothing to apologize for, even within the context of the points you’ve made. His speech was meant to spur action, and while it’s still too early to tell if it did that, it certainly did shine a light on the do-nothing-have-inertia strategy of the Republicans.

I’d like to add that I wouldn’t want other Dems to start jumping on the bandwagon and using over the top hyperbole to attack the GOP. Now that Grayson has some press it’s time for other Dems to fight back by clarifying his overall point and inviting the GOP to stop whining and actually participate in solving problems rather than obstructing progress.

I can get with this. Once in a while, for effect, is one thing. But to make it the norm would not, as Ravenman and Richard Parker are trying to point out, serve the country well.

To some degree the Repubs have been doing it for some time, and I think it’s clear that it hasn’t been a boon in any way.

forget it.

Well, you’re the first person in the thread to have articulated that position, so yay for you.

But as it is crystal clear that Grayson was saying the former and NOT the latter, the argument, such as it is, has yet to be defended. Not that I would encourage anyone to attempt to do so. Given the choice between reading the tortuous, specious amd disingenuous drivel that such a defense would necessarily involve, and searching for free, high-quality, internet porn . . . well, I trust that I need not go into exhaustive detail about which would be a more productive use of my time.

Actually, what I’m about to do right now is take a nap.

Well, like I said, it’s nice when someone says what I’m thinking. It feels all liberating to throw off the shackles and say things outright, but just because it’s a nice feeling and enjoyable doesn’t make it sensible.

I don’t think I’m completely immune to logic, just mostly. :smiley:

Goodness! What is to be done? How do we mold ourselves to fit centrist civility, how do we back away from the radical extreme of “Change Now!” to “Change Pretty Soon, If Nobody Minds and Its Not Too Much Trouble!”

A tea party! There’s the ticket, a nice place setting with proper china and doilies, some Earl Grey…what? too radical? Some Lipton’s, perhaps? How many settings do you think we will need, then? How many of our opponents will we be expecting, to sip politely, pinkies akimbo, and murmur softly in the spirit of comity and compromise? A fete worse than death.

When was the last time this approach accomplished anything? When have the Forces of Darkness examined our position, scratched their horned heads and said “Hey, you’re right, that’s grossly unfair to (labor, blacks, gays, what have you…). We will gladly sacrifice some of our money and power to further the cause of justice, where do we sign?”

Should that happy day arrive, I recommend you liquidate all your holdings and invest in umbrella manufacturing, because pig flop will be falling from the skies…

Ravenmann: “put your anti-cooty shields up” has a purpose, and I will explain. I do it as a gesture of respect to my reader, its my signal that I know, full well, that my citation comes from a source of unimpeachable truth, which is to say, it leans to the left.

I am intentsely annoyed by its opposite, the poster who offers us a citation from NewsMuck or Fox Gnaws, or some other such. Might as well just say “I think you are so stupid, I can pull this shit on you and you won’t even notice.”

That said, I favor such sites as Think Progress and Talking Points Memo, as they always include their links, and always substantiate their claims. And I do mean “always”. I have every confidence in them, they’ve not burned me yet. But I will still (usually, unless I forget) include my caveat, it is a gesture of respect to the reader, that I am not trying to pull a slow one.

If you find my style and opinions tiresome, as many do, you are cheerfully invited to note my cognomen, prominently displayed, top left. And skip merrily along, unburdened. Whatever floats yer boat, whatever loads yer software. Peace on you!

I’m sorry if that came across as a shot at you personally. I was trying to make a joke about partisan news sources, and I guess the humor wasn’t as evident as I thought when I was writing it. I understand your point, and while the phrase still grates on me, I apologize for any offense I caused by that comment.

Gracefully done, sir. Hat doffed.

Oh dear, the Florida GOP is having trouble finding anyone willing to run against Grayson:

Who’s taking on Grayson? Anyone? Hello?

Webster: I’m not running against Grayson