Should America Celebrate Columbus Day?

[WillFarnaby]

@monstro

Columbus was motivated by captalistic greed. He wasn’t even that great of an explorer

Columbus never did anything that could be associated with capitalism. He was working within a prototypically mercantilist system. Capitalism was developed in opposition to mercantilism.

[DerekMichaels00]

@iiandyiiii

Do you really believe that? He gave ten-year-old indigenous children to his men to be rape toys. Columbus did many things that, even in his time, would have been widely recognized as morally reprehensible had they been widely known.

He was very influential, but we can reasonably judge him as a monster even in his time.

Muhammed married a 10 year old but people still celebrated Muhammed and the WH has celebrations in honor of a religion which owes its existence to Muhammed.

Look, maybe I should’ve phrased the question of the OP as “should we continue to celebrate Columbus Day?” But it exists already, its fait accompli, and given the good that did come out of Columbus, we should continue to celebrate it.

[Procrustus]

@DerekMichaels00

Muhammed married a 10 year old but people still celebrated Muhammed and the WH has celebrations in honor of a religion which owes its existence to Muhammed.

Look, maybe I should’ve phrased the question of the OP as “should we continue to celebrate Columbus Day?” But it exists already, its fait accompli, and given the good that did come out of Columbus, we should continue to celebrate it.

Are we voting? I’ll vote “no.”

[iiandyiiii]

@DerekMichaels00

Muhammed married a 10 year old but people still celebrated Muhammed and the WH has celebrations in honor of a religion which owes its existence to Muhammed.

Look, maybe I should’ve phrased the question of the OP as “should we continue to celebrate Columbus Day?” But it exists already, its fait accompli, and given the good that did come out of Columbus, we should continue to celebrate it.

So now you are arguing that Muhammed should be celebrated as well? Color me shocked!

[purplehearingaid]

I moved to California from the east coast and I kept my child out of school for
Columbus Day and the next day her teacher wanted to know why my child wasn’t in school . I told she b/c it was Columbus Day and there was no school were I lived before. Ca. didn’t celebrate Columbus Day and I had no idea but I was so happy to learn this . I call it Terrorist day ! Columbus was a terrorist and we shouldn’t celebrating him.

[Ravenman]

@DerekMichaels00

Look, maybe I should’ve phrased the question of the OP as “should we continue to celebrate Columbus Day?” But it exists already, its fait accompli, and given the good that did come out of Columbus, we should continue to celebrate it.

How are you planning to celebrate Columbus Day?

[up_the_junction]

@DerekMichaels00

Muhammed married a 10 year old but people still celebrated Muhammed and the WH has celebrations in honor of a religion which owes its existence to Muhammed.

Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13-year old and people still dance to his music; krazie world.

[Bricker]

@iiandyiiii

Here. A letter from one of Columbus’s lieutenants and childhood friends (bolding mine):

“The admiral” is Columbus. The age isn’t mentioned, so my “ten year old” specification might be inaccurate (the “ten year old” comes from some of his slave trading notes, in which Columbus did highlight the age of the girls most in demand).

Which part of the letter has Columbus knowing about the rapey pursuits of da Cueno?

[iiandyiiii]

@Bricker

Which part of the letter has Columbus knowing about the rapey pursuits of da Cueno?

Oh come on. It’s the “Joe Paterno was a nice old man who didn’t know that child rape was a thing” defense all over again.

Do you really believe that Columbus gave his man a pretty young slave girl and didn’t know that he might rape her?

[up_the_junction]

@octopus

What I’m saying is why is there no hand wringing that random tribe A overran random tribe B? Do the Crow Indians have guilt over the tribes they displaced? How about the Aztecs? Do the Germanic tribes have guilt over the people they pushed out the way? How about the Han in China?

And why is “survival of the fittest” monstrous? You state that conclusion like a fact. Well what else is there? First of all what is meant by fit? Hmm. In my point of view, fit means you survived and reproduced. That’s what biological fitness means.

If we live in a world that is deterministic, human behavior is governed by what exactly?

Our world is framed by law. The actions spoken about took place in the mid-19th century, a period when law was well established. It really wasn’t the jungle and we really weren’t dragging our knuckles.

[Bricker]

@iiandyiiii

Oh come on. It’s the “Joe Paterno was a nice old man who didn’t know that child rape was a thing” defense all over again.

Do you really believe that Columbus gave his man a pretty young slave girl and didn’t know that he might rape her?

Oh, come on. The more serious the accusation, the more I need to see solid evidence. The answer is: I have no idea what Columbus did. I have a letter written by a guy who crows happily about his own act of violent rape, in which he alleges that Columbus gave him the girl, period. In contrast, I have Columbus’ own words of denial:

I assert that the violence of the calumny of turbulent persons has injured me more than my services have profited me; which is a bad example for the present and for the future. I take my oath that a number of men have gone to the Indies who did not deserve water in the sight of God and of the world; and now they are returning thither, and leave is granted them.

So you certainly don’t get to parade this hearsay about as if it were incontrovertible fact; Columbus was OPPOSED to the nine and ten year old girls being sold, yet for some peculiar reason that paragraph of his letter is never quoted – only the one in which he describes it.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@DerekMichaels00

Muhammed married a 10 year old but people still celebrated Muhammed and the WH has celebrations in honor of a religion which owes its existence to Muhammed.

I don’t want a federal holiday for either of them. Or a state holiday for either of them. But if some municipality wants to have an official city holiday for either – well, no, I’d vote against either proposal likewise.

Look, maybe I should’ve phrased the question of the OP as “should we continue to celebrate Columbus Day?” But it exists already, its fait accompli,

That, uh, doesn’t mean anything to me. Ask me whether I think we should legalize X, or criminalize Y, and Z if I don’t tell you what I think; and if you follow up by saying it was a trick question because X is already legal or Y is already a crime, I’ll blink and say it has nothing to do with whether I think that’s how it should be; likewise, whether something happens to be a holiday or not has no bearing on my preferences.

Can’t derive an ‘ought’ from an ‘is’, y’know.

[iiandyiiii]

@Bricker

Oh, come on. The more serious the accusation, the more I need to see solid evidence. The answer is: I have no idea what Columbus did. I have a letter written by a guy who crows happily about his own act of violent rape, in which he alleges that Columbus gave him the girl, period. In contrast, I have Columbus’ own words of denial:

So you certainly don’t get to parade this hearsay about as if it were incontrovertible fact; Columbus was OPPOSED to the nine and ten year old girls being sold, yet for some peculiar reason that paragraph of his letter is never quoted – only the one in which he describes it.

This isn’t a court of law. I don’t think it’s “incontrovertible fact”, but I think the preponderance of evidence suggests that Columbus probably participated in enslaving children and sexual slavery.

[octopus]

Better take Jefferson off the $2 bill.

[iiandyiiii]

@octopus

Better take Jefferson off the $2 bill.

Go ahead and make that case if you want – I’m sure we could have an interesting discussion.

[Bricker]

@iiandyiiii

This isn’t a court of law. I don’t think it’s “incontrovertible fact”, but I think the preponderance of evidence suggests that Columbus probably participated in enslaving children and sexual slavery.

“Preponderance of the evidence?”

A letter not authored by him that doesn’t even claim he knew of the rape is not “preponderance of the evidence.” It’s not even close.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Bricker

So you certainly don’t get to parade this hearsay about as if it were incontrovertible fact; Columbus was OPPOSED to the nine and ten year old girls being sold, yet for some peculiar reason that paragraph of his letter is never quoted – only the one in which he describes it.

Whoa, whoa. That seems a lot to read out of the quote you cited. Where are you getting all that from, specifically?

[Bryan_Ekers]

Huh. Will rehabilitating Columbus be David Irving’s next project?

[Bricker]

@Revenant_Threshold

Whoa, whoa. That seems a lot to read out of the quote you cited. Where are you getting all that from, specifically?

Thacher’s complete repro of the letter in “Christopher Columbus: His Life, His Works, His Remains.” No online cite.

[JRDelirious]

@Bryan_Ekers

Huh. Will rehabilitating Columbus be David Irving’s next project?

Hmmm… I wonder…

But be as it may, were the commemoration to be officially or colloquially recast as Encounter of Cultures Day or Opening of the Atlantic Day or Age of Exploration Day or Guns Germs and Steel Day, do we imagine there would there be a loud outcry about it being a PC abuse for the person of the Admiral himself being no longer the headliner?