You don’t think Heather Heyer was an innocent victim? I’m certain that viewpoint won’t be popular around here.
No one’s asking you to reject your leftist ideology in its entirety. The OP asked “Should Antifa violence be condemned?” I would have hoped more Dopers on the left would have the moral fortitude to do at least that much. It’s not an indictment of environmentalism, or #MeToo or whatever your pet issues are, just a rejection of violent and dangerous tactics, which happen to be practiced by fringe leftists.
I don’t even know what I saw there. First, there’s this guy slapping somebody on the butt with…a fan? Some sort of fly swatter? Apparently, to no real effect. Then he hits the guy in the head with the same…what? Nerf bat?..and the guy falls to ground grievously injured. What was that guy holding?
But my question was about you invoking the opinions of mainstream America. I asked if you represent mainstream America. Apparently, that question moved you to change the subject. Hey, you don’t want to answer, no prob, Bob. I have no authority, never have had any. Just wondered if you thought you represent “mainstream America”. And you ducked it. Which is a more revealing response than you seem to realize.
From the Oregonian article I’ve cited a couple of times now:
I thought the question was so silly it didn’t merit a response. Of course I don’t “represent” them (and never claimed that I did), but I do understand them.
Cite for how you gained your expertise? I don’t think that you do. Who do you consider as “mainstream” Americans? Do you think you are a mainstream American?
Is that the requirement now? People have to hold up membership cards or we can’t know what group / movement they are a part of? Of all those alleged Nazis in Charlottesville, how many do you think held up membership cards?
It’s a group that commits crimes and consequently strives to hide their identity. No shit they didn’t hold up their membership card for the camera. :rolleyes:
I was very wrong. I should have known that everything is controversial on the SDMB. I honestly didn’t think this thread would go anywhere near this long. Although it does seem to have morphed from antifa violence of the rioting kind (i.e. property damage) to is it ok for antifa to punch Nazis?
Yes, I think she was not an “innocent victim”. She was not a random person getting a snack at a hot dog stand. She showed up to take part in the counter-protest.
Which does not change the circumstances of her death. She in no way deserved to be one more notch in the burning cross.
I actually have, in a general sort of way: the old “war decides not who’s right but who’s left” idea. We shall see what happens when they cause a death.
So we’re 210 messages into this thread, and I see the right-leaning faction is basically ignoring all of the “yes, of course violence should be condemned, except maybe as a defense against other violence” messages to answer their imaginary strawmen.
But tell me, have we yet even determined if Antifa even exists in any real sense? Other than as a recurrent boogyman for the Fox News crowd, I’ve never even heard the word used in the last year or so, certainly not as any sort of even loosely-organzed group.
Frankly, this whole Antifa thing sounds like “splinter cells,” and “immigrant crime wave” and “fraudulent voters” and “refugees with no background checks” and “welfare queens” and all the other stuff that the right really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants us to be afraid of, NONE OF WHICH ACTUALLY EXIST IN ANY NUMBERS.
The fact that they keep throwing the same two or three incidents out as “proof” of these things pretty clearly demonstrates that none of them are real, while ignoring the motes in their own eyes (hate crimes really ARE up, for example).
I think you’re ignoring the various posts that have defended / supported / justified / promised violence for things other than self defense in this thread.
I can’t say what YOU may have determined, but Nancy Pelosi seems convinced. Is she in the habit of condemning imaginary strawmen? Is WaPo in the habit of publishing articles about groups that don’t really exist?
We throw out the ones caught on video precisely because we can determine that they are, in fact, real.
For the most part, yes. I’m sure I can come up with a couple of exceptions (like moron, but I’m not sure that counts). It saves quite a lot of time when dealing with people.
No actual numbers? I guess the violent antifa fighting the violent Nazis is all make believe? By your logic all this hand wringing over so called Nazis is just an attempt to manipulate a narrative.